Aline Düerr
Jim Moore 0:05
This is a bloody vegans production Hello, my name is Jim, this is my podcast the bloody vegans. You're very welcome to it. Each week I'll be travelling ever deeper into the world of veganism, discovering along the way a multitude of viewpoints from the political and ethical to the practical. I'll be doing this through a series of conversations, each aiming to further illuminate my understanding, and hopefully yours, of all things plant centric. Before we get into the episode, the standard bit of admin that needs to happen at bloody vegans Tower's. So first of all, to note, if you are a business of any description, looking for your own podcast, perhaps you're even an individual looking for your own podcast. And you would like some help to do that. You can contact Jim at the bloody vegans podcast.co. UK, here at bloody vegans productions, the newly minted organisation responsible for this podcast. And we can assist you in everything from coming up with an idea through to technically how to do it. We can even take all of the stress out of it for you record it for you, edit it and publish it. So if you're interested in that, give me a line via email at Jim at the bloody vegans podcast.co.uk Glorious stuff is all the admin, we're not going to talk about anything else. That's that. So let's get on to the episode in hand, Episode 105106, who knows over 100 Alene dirt Alene is the founder of vegan interior design and Australian based business which is aiming to veganize interiors, whether they be residential or indeed commercial spaces, there is so much that is non vegan within both of those environments. That you know, to the untrained eye, you'd have no idea you know me personally four and a half years into the world of veganism before I came across a lean, I genuinely has no idea about half of the products and what they are and what their contents were things you just really wouldn't suspect a vegan. I don't want to spoil any of Elaine's thunder. So it's really tempting to start telling you what they are, but I won't. In the course of the podcast, we talk about all kinds of different things. And lean is a true entrepreneur in every sense of the word. Not only is like I say she's founded the vegan interior design business that she has. But she's also created interior vegan Design Week, which is a virtual event being held in the beginning of November, I believe, which is aimed at not only interior designers and suppliers and so on, but actually all of us, everybody who sleeps somewhere lives somewhere etc, etc. and wants to find out a little bit more about this space, you can you can attend this, this particular design week, and there are a host of different lecturers sharing all kinds of fascinating information about the whole world of interior design with a vegan slant on that. So you can check that out there will be links in the show notes. So if you are interested in attending that event, then you absolutely can through that as well. If you are want to go a bit deeper and actually want to learn about vegan interior design, Alina also hosts courses, online courses available via her website, vegan interior design.com. And there you can you can take on, I think it's a six week course. And in that course you can learn all kinds of different things about design with with the kind of the vegan viewpoint in mind. And she's also an author as well. So as if as if she hasn't got enough to do she's she wrote a book called Vegan interior design, which talks about the entire subject and there's a real kind of practical guide for folks wanting to veganize their interior so Elaine's shares all of this far, far more eloquent than me. So without further ado, here's a conversation between me and a lien do.
So Eleni, it'd be amazing to get start with a little bit of your personal journey into the world of veganism what's brought you here?
Aline Düerr 5:00
I've only really been vegan for four years, which compared to other people, you know, I come across them seems like nothing, but it was really, I was on maternity leave, I always thought about going vegan, that side of is way too extreme. And I could never quit cheese, you know, the usual dairy argument. And I was literally just breastfeeding my daughter, and something came up on my phone about a cow chasing her calf that was taken from her. And that really, in that moment that really clicked. And then a few months later, the documented Dominion came out here in Australia, and I went to the premiere. And I don't know if you've seen it, but that's a really I'm sure you probably have, but that's a really confronting one. So I watched it all in one go. And I always say I turned vegan overnight, which obviously doesn't really happen. But mentally, absolutely, like from that moment, I was like, Well, okay, now that that's it, whatever it takes to go vegan and eliminate all of this, I'll have to do it. And yeah, and that was really the turning point. That was about four years ago, and my kids are being brought up vegan now. My business is vegan. Everything turned from there. It was a pretty simple switch, because I'm in it for the animals, not for my health or for sustainability. That's great side effect. But for me, it's really the animals of that enormous cruelty that's out there. Still, that I Yeah. If I think about that, I don't miss anything that I would have missed before. You know, I don't miss cheese. I don't miss dairy because it's it's horrible. Yeah. There was a really, it was obviously a big change, a big lifestyle change, but an easy one, in a way.
Jim Moore 7:13
Yeah. I shared a similar feeling to you actually on that. I think. People say Don't you miss this? Don't you miss that? I think well, though, nothing is worth the pain and cruelty to me. Doesn't matter.
Aline Düerr 7:27
Once you once you have that in front of you, you know, internalise I keep seeing that. That cow chasing her calf? Yeah, I don't. I don't miss any any of that. Dairy, you know, good. Oh, yeah.
Jim Moore 7:47
Just, you know, from from the part of Australia that you're in the moment what? What was the? What was it like culturally from a vegan standpoint? You know, was it difficult given the surroundings? Or is it is it quite straightforward where you are?
Aline Düerr 8:03
I'm in Sydney. So, big cities always help in terms of, you know, vegan food choices. And Australia in general has is a very growing vegan movement. I mean, I still a tiny minority, obviously. But um, but ya know, it's, it's growing and it's, most restaurants have have a vegan option. You know, it's not always just a salad. So I'm quite lucky. Where I am. And yeah, it's from the, from the food side of things is relatively straightforward. Yeah, I did actually. I was asked by the world vegan magazine to Ryder, top spots, Sydney, with a few restaurants and possibly one or two fashion shops that sell vegan clothes. I was like, well, having had two kids over the last two years and I haven't been you know, out shopping that much fashion and with COVID and everything you know, was no need. Then I thought well, there's not really any shops and then ask around ask the vegan said the Facebook group and ask other people that I thought they must know. And everyone says that there is not one retail fashion shop that sells vegan thing. That's actually what veganism being wide or becoming quite mainstream. That's actually amazing. So there is room to grow but from the food side of you it's it's relatively easy.
Jim Moore 9:45
Yeah, yeah. And I share similar sort of sentiment around actually UK you know, big cities tend to be easier. And food you know, is the is where everything's centred and it hasn't necessarily I don't think there's enough voices in different avenues I know. And I when I came across your business, actually just just instantly was like, oh, yeah, obviously there's the leather sofas and things like that that you think about, but I hadn't ever really thought about anything else in that space. Just tell me a little bit about your, your kind of journey into that. So we go into interior design beforehand, and then had to kind of pivot.
Aline Düerr 10:29
Yes, that's exactly how it happened. So I've been an interior designer running my own business for last 10 years. And at that point, when I turned vegan, I was on maternity leave. So I wasn't working, I wasn't even working. I always had my own studio, but I also worked for companies over the past years, and at that point, I wasn't working at all. And I could really focus on this, you know, whole life change in terms of food, and yeah, my wardrobe and cosmetics and everything, and how to become vegan via breastfeeding. And, you know, making sure my daughter has everything she needs. So I really focused on all of that. And then I thought, well, I can't really do my job as I used to do, because I never really specified leather that much anyway, but definitely wool carpets and wool fabrics, and, and silk curtains and those kinds of things. Quite a lot. And I thought, well, well. And from the materials point of view, I thought, Well, okay, there needs to be some change. And at the same time, I thought, well, actually, interior design is great. And it's and I work in mostly in commercial interior design. So a lot of office fit outs, or restaurants or Yeah, commercial spaces. And it's got its its role, and it's an important job. But it felt so trivial compared to all the cruelty and all the pain that's going on out there. So I just wanted to buy land and adopt 5 million farm animals. And so I went to all these different motions of that. And then I thought, Well, okay, I just need to turn my my business completely vegan. How do we do that? Is does it end leather couches and wool rugs and silk curtains? Or is there more to it? And that's when I really started researching the whole subject. And I came across paint, I was like all paint, but what's the in paint, and there's a lot of animal products and paint. And even if there isn't, then then there's usually so many toxins in there or chemicals that are tested on animals. So it's still not vegan. And then I came across more than more than I thought, well, it's too much information. And it's all over the internet, but it's not in one spot. And if I want to, you know, if I want to work in this field, I need to have the resources in one space. And that's how everything evolves relatively quickly. I decided to write a book to capture the most basic information I found because you know, then I found out towels and generally vegan like most towels aren't. And that's because of the dyes. That's because of the chemicals used in there. That's because of beeswax, a whole lot of things. But who thinks of that towel? So you know. And I thought, well, I need to put it in one space. So I wrote a book. And yeah, that's that's how it really started. And then I thought, Well, the book is great. And actually, I think it's been launched exactly a year ago. Yeah, it was launched a year ago. So I've sold so many more than I expected because I thought it's more an exercise for myself to to put all this knowledge in one package to tell clients about it. But then the book was selling really well. Everywhere in the world. I'm like, wow, this is this is probably a thing. Maybe this is the next, you know, friend that needs to be looked more into. And I had a lot of vegans contacting me like I've been vegan for 12 years for 20 years. I never knew that, you know, plywood is not vegan. And that's when I decided to also create an online course because I thought well, we need to get all the interior designers on board. Even if they're not we and it doesn't matter, but you If they can reconsider what they're specifying, or if they can cater for a more ethical clientele, that's a different specialty for them. And that's also, you know, a bonus for the vegan movement. So, yeah, yeah, so it's all just developed quite naturally. But very fast in a way, because
I don't know, when I started looking into this, there was no vegan paint in Australia. And now there's two companies openly advertising it, that their paint is also vegan. And, and yeah, there's so many articles, and it's like in newspapers and magazines and non vegan spaces where I think, well, it is a it is a thing, and it's, it's happening. So it is very encouraging. Because only over the last few years, it's actually become more and more noticed. I'd say, yeah, maybe that's my little bubble I live into but at least in my bubble, it pops up here there all the time.
Jim Moore 16:13
It's completely mind blowing, to be honest, because I think, you know, and eye opening, because like you say the, the food is often front and centre. People then kind of go down the clothes through the toiletries, that bits and pieces within their home. But there's some things I think we just don't ask questions over, because we just don't assume that there would be anything in here. What do you think? No, you think paint on a wall? Well, you know, why would that be affected? Or towels? Like you say, why would that be affected? I heard you speaking in a in an interview. And you mentioned I know, this isn't strictly interior design, but it's in the home, you're talking about toilet paper. And that was another one that be honest, was an eye opener to me. I had no idea that there was any any issue with that? Well, just just for folks who hadn't heard that, and I'd recommend they hear that interview too, on YouTube. But it'll be good to understand what what what's the process there? That's that's the problem. What's
Aline Düerr 17:13
not vegan? It's the it's the binding agent. I think it's I think it's some sort of gelatin. So just like, you know, normal gummy bears or jellies, it's the it's the gelatin that binds the paper and you don't need it. Obviously, there's a lot of toilet paper companies that don't use it. But that general traditional way of making it uses uses that kind of binding material. Yeah.
Jim Moore 17:48
Is there any? In the time you've been doing this? Have you seen any kind of like, legislation? Is there any obligation on manufacturers of products like that, maybe like paint, so on and so forth to display prominently their ingredients in a kind of way that are ingredients, but you know, that in the way that kind of food is because like, I can't ever recall turning around a pot of Farrow and ball and seeing what's in it. You
Aline Düerr 18:15
know, there isn't, and that's the thing like, yeah, with, you know, even if you buy anything for the home, there's no labelling, there's no, no ingredients list, it probably says, you know, you buy a couch and it says, timber legs, foam, base and feather filled, pushing cushions or something, but that that's a bad word start stops. And I think it's also because nobody asks about it. Or maybe I didn't use them. I didn't even think of doing that. And that's the thing. Once you start looking into these things, you find more and more and more and then there's the furniture glues, and I always say I mean my my couch is still filled with feathers. Because that I bought this before becoming vegan, and it's an amazing couch. I do feel bad every time one little feather pulls out, you know, sit somewhere, pokes, you pull it out, and you have this feather in your hand. I feel bad, but at the same time, the damage is already done. The coach has been paid, have already you know, I've already done this. It's already there. So if I throw it out now, well, doesn't do anyone Good. I'll use it as long as I can. And the next time I buy a couch it'll be vegan and that's what I say to customers or to students as well like it doesn't have to be from zero to 100%. But if you know about it, then at least you can change it and same with furniture glues. Do I? Every time I specified I go into all the details and ask the suppliers about down to the glue, as sometimes don't have the time, sometimes it's good enough that the filling is not made of feathers are down and that the upholstery is not made of any wall and that the big items, the big parts of a piece of furniture or something I specify is not or is vegan. If you have the time, and if you really care about it, you can but for me, it's more and that's why I also I wanted to write a book and write a cause rather than keep working one on one, project by project. I just want to get the information out there. And then people can do whatever they want with it. You know, I had people commenting on interviews I've done before, and they're like, this is batshit crazy, this person, you know, who cares about glues? And it's like, Well, you probably don't. And like I said, I don't always go to that extent myself. But if you know about it, then at least you can decide if you want to or not. If you know that paint is generally not vegan, the next time you paint your house, you might just look into it and find the alternative and decide that that's, you know, a better way just Yeah, I feel like it's it's important. What for me especially, yes, it's important for me to get the information out and then people can do with it whatever they want. But because so many vegans especially have come back to me and said are never thought about this. Thanks for letting me know. I feel well, it's actually doing I'm doing the job. I want to do I think I'm doing you know.
Jim Moore 22:00
Yeah, I think he's invaluable information. I don't think it's it's crazy at all, I think you know, there's it's just a completely untapped kind of area that people just aren't aware of, you know, I certainly wasn't and I've been similar to yourself, for a bit years vegan doing a podcast like this for two years. And until I came across you and your work I hadn't, I'd be honest with you, outside of the headlines of, you know, make sure don't buy cushions with feathers in, don't buy silk don't buy leather. It hadn't occurred to me that to even ask the question. So I think you're absolutely right to put the information out there to ask the questions. I think will prompt a lot of people actually to pick that book up and say actually, do I ask these questions and I'm fully with you on the kind of pre Reaganism argument, if you like, like, if I've learned something from before, I often think, you know, from an environmental damage point of view, from the point of, you know, just not being wasteful, so on and so forth. Is it is it right to just get rid of something and I don't think I'm with you. I don't think I personally don't think it is I respect anybody's decision on what they want to do with their, their staff. And you know, if they sell it and give it to a good home and rebuy.
Aline Düerr 23:19
Every home rehome it that's perfect. I mean, I understand that the leather couch, you know, once you know you're sitting on a dead cow skin, I mean, who probably knew before, but once you realise and you probably just don't want that piece in your home anymore, but as long as you can rehome it, then that's better than just throwing everything out and starting starting fresh. Which assumption I want to do too, and I understand, but yet, it's totally so many facettes
Jim Moore 23:54
Absolutely. What was the process of research like for the book? Because I mean, was this like, literally approaching every company? Can Can I get your ingredients list? Like how far did you have to go to compile all this like, myriad of information?
Aline Düerr 24:11
Ah, it was a bit of a bit of everything. I mean, there is there is a lady out in the US. I never know how to pronounce her name. I think it's Deborah DeMarco. And she has a company called Vegan design.org And she actually has an online course as well. And then she talks in the course she talks mainly about the cruelty be alike she shows videos and talks about why leather is cruel and why wall is cruel and that's a really good start. What I wanted more was alternatives like, like okay, I know all this now but But what do I do now? What do I use instead? And, and before that it was really contacting suppliers and companies. And it's a it's a tricky one because there's there is a lot of vegan alternatives, but they're not necessarily sustainable. So there's, you know, your PU leather and all that. That's great, it's not vegan, it hasn't killed any animals, but at the same time, it's really bad for your health. And it's really bad for the environment still, which then circles bacteria, it's also bad for the animals in general. So finding a vegan, Ontario's, that's also sustainable. We're still working on that, as an industry. There's a lot of bio based materials coming out like leather made of mushrooms and mango peels, and Apple leather, like there is all these amazing innovations coming out. They're not all necessarily suitable for interior style, like for fashion, definitely. But for interiors, they need to have a different durability, they need to have a different thickness, they, they haven't necessarily all been out long enough like this is only really accelerating in the last few years. So they haven't been out long enough to have been tested over the years. Sometimes, there's beautiful materials, but there's not enough supply, because it's still all these smaller companies starting and researching these products and bringing them into the market. They haven't hit the mass market yet. So it is a lot of contacting suppliers and manufacturers and also innovators of these products. And then yeah, just putting it all together. But yeah, it's it's still a growing industry. We're behind fashion, we're far behind food, but it's still happening. Yeah,
Jim Moore 27:10
yeah. Forgive Forgive my complete naivete with this question. But but my assumption probably draw more from the world of fashion. And also thinking about car interiors as well, that there is I guess, it's leather and animal products are synonymous with kind of luxury. And some of the, the sort of the other alternatives are tend tend to be considered cheaper, and not as good quality, and so on and so forth. When you're working with a client who wants a very specific look, how difficult is it to find products, whether it's sofas a bit be a big pieces, or the smaller pieces that are that give a sense of the same kind of level of luxury, but with without any, you know, harm being done to animals, is that is that more difficult to find?
Aline Düerr 28:10
It used to be it isn't really No, it isn't. Because there is amazing, amazing leather alternatives out there now that have the same feel the same look, and know that the products are out there, and especially in that more luxurious level. Usually custom make products anyway. And if you're already at that level, there's definitely the same, you know, you can get the same kind of feel and product. It's not that difficult. You might have to do a little bit of research, but you need to do research for every client individually. Anyway. So yeah, now the products out there and a colleague of mine in the in the US Resha Volden. She's an vegan interior designer as well. And she said, the new luxury is that the luxury is that you have the luxury of choice, you know, and then there's another colleague of mine in Santa Barbara, also vegan interior designer, she she says we need to redefine luxury because the products are out there but it's in people's minds. You know, like it has to be real leather. It's actually there's this mango leather coming out of the Netherlands. And it feels amazing. It actually smells amazing. And I just think you know the fact that this is made out of mango weighs like peels and the pulp. I find that much more appealing then Obviously, then a dead skin. But it's, then there is some really amazing products out there that I've that are so innovative that they replace that. That luxury component, you know what I mean? Like, yeah, then you can say, oh, yeah, look at my couch, it feels like leather looks like leather, and it's made out of mangoes. I feel like, you know, you can replace it with a different talk ability point. But saying that there is still clients out there that say all but it needs to be the real deal. And I find, you need to approach each client from a different point of view, you know, some people are more focused on their health, some are more focused on the environment, some are just focused on luxury and needs to just look expensive. So you can find arguments for vegan products for all these different categories. So, yeah,
Jim Moore 31:02
how about, you know, you mentioned earlier, like commercial settings, are often the place where you sort of find yourself and doing some of your your projects? And I'm thinking, you know, from their perspectives? I don't know, say it was a hotel chain, who wants, you know, they want an element of luxury, but they're, they're also quite, probably quite price conscious, given the fact that they're trying to fit out X amount of hotels or that kind of thing? Is there more of a challenge in that kind of, like you said earlier about that they're not being necessarily the mass production of these kind of things? Is there then a choice to be made over? Well, rather than you going down the, the fake leather route? The you know, because the best quality ones are quite expensive? Have you thought about changing materials? Do you often find yourself in that kind of like convincing space?
Aline Düerr 31:51
Yeah, not even not? Yeah, not even necessarily convincing. But I mean, from my point of view, I never start with leather anyway, I don't, if I specify and if the client doesn't specifically say they want leather, I don't even go for the alternative. I specify beautiful fabric that nobody will argue about. That's vegan anyway. You know, it's just when the question is raised are vital, we use vegan writer for use leather, or why don't we use this that, then I'll explain why I don't specify it and why they shouldn't use it. And in a commercial setting, I usually use the price point and also the durability. And yes, in a commercial project, I find myself often having to specify a less sustainable product. Yeah. But that's just like I said, because there's not that the amount of material of alternatives is not out there yet. Yeah. But yeah, I mean, there's there's plenty of alternatives that are naturally vegan, you don't need to go for the, for the fake leathers, you know, there's, it's just like with food, you know, you can eat vegan chicken nuggets, or you just eat something completely, non meaty altogether. And it's delicious, too. Yes. Yeah. So if you want to replace like, for, like, there is alternatives, but so many people design in a naturally vegan way anyway, you know, without necessarily having to specify it.
Jim Moore 33:48
Yeah, yeah. Have you noticed, maybe in the commercial space, but maybe also in the kind of the sort of general consumer space, however, you notice there being a shift in the in the sort of four years since you've been vegan in terms of people seeking either seeking you out or being more conscious of these things themselves without you necessarily having to say, you know, let's talk about the materials specifically, they're kind of, they're wanting to go down that route, you know, maybe maybe for their own green condense credentials, if they're, if they're a commercial space. It's probably 5050
Aline Düerr 34:21
Especially in the commercial jobs, I mean, sustainability has been a buzzword in the interior design industry for over a decade. And it's such a weak term, you know, I mean, it's, it's the standard now and everything has to be sustainable and every companies have, obviously doing things sustainably. But then, you know, one of one of my favourite stories like I contacted a supplier and asked if the the products they were selling are vegan and he says Well, they're not vegan, but reverse sustainable company, please read our sustainability statement attached. And I read through it and the most sustainable thing in there was that they're recycling their cardboard boxes. And that has nothing to do that. Like, yes, they're recycling the massive cardboard boxes, the lounges get delivered in. But that's got nothing to do with what I asked about. So it's such a wide field. But yes, sustainability is really important. And everyone wants to get the green tick. And there's a lot of that going on. But I feel like it's often just to tick a box rather than real interest. I mean, definitely in the commercial projects. Residential ones, it is more, it's, it's becoming a bit more more of a trend. And people are more concerned, especially over the last year when people spend a lot of time at home. And, you know, think about the environment a little bit more. But yeah, it's 5050. Some people just come to me, they don't even know. I mean, yeah, because I still have my old company name. And then I have my new business running parallel. So some people don't even know. But yeah, they happy to hear about it. And I haven't really had problems with any client yet. Trying to convince them and then they buy the animal products anyway. Because it's usually quite quite obvious. Once you say a few things, you know, and I'm not trying to to alienate any of my clients. But if you if you spell it out how it is, you know, it's the skin of a dead animal or like bull, why is it not? Actually that organic? Or that healthy? Or that cruelty free? They usually get it?
Jim Moore 37:14
Yeah. Yeah, I can imagine. I can imagine. I was going to ask you about the last kind of, like, 18 months, two years. Because my my perception again, maybe naively, but maybe from my own experience, and I'll appreciate always put the caveat on this. Everyone's situation has been completely different over the last kind of 18 months and two years. So it's not everyone's had been in this kind of like, perhaps in the very fortunate privileged space that I've been where I've been working from home and you know, you perhaps saving a bit of money because you're not travelling and so on and so forth to work, you're not commuting. Has that? Has that been helpful to you? If people been looking around thinking, you know, what, actually, let's let's work on this project in the in the home? Or has it actually been, you know, people are probably turning a little bit more kind of DIY, and so on and so forth. Like, how how's it been for you over the last kind of 18 months?
Aline Düerr 38:06
Well, for me, personally, it's a bit of a different story. I know the industry here in Australia has actually been doing really well. Because yes, people had a look around, try doing it themselves worked out that they can't do it themselves, and then contacted our industry like colleagues and everyone. I personally, I had a baby eight months ago, so I was pregnant last year. I was writing my I was writing my book fully pregnant, was developing those causes just to get everything out before the baby was born. And I haven't really taken on any projects for the last eight months. Mind you, I'm working on a massive project right now. Which is selling out it's vegan Interior Design Week, which I can talk to you about in a minute. But um, I know, the industry has actually here in Australia been pretty busy. Yeah. Because people started looking around. And, you know, same for landscaping. People suddenly looked at their garden like are actually we do everything. So um, yeah, in this part of the world. We've been pretty busy.
Jim Moore 39:23
Yeah. You've been very busy.
Aline Düerr 39:26
I've been busy to Parliament more, you know, from my desk. Yeah.
Jim Moore 39:31
Yeah, I know. I know. That world is very busy and data and I haven't even attempted to write a book or start a course. So my hat is off to you. That's incredible. Be good to hear about in the Design Week as well. If you can, yeah, because
Aline Düerr 39:49
because I was doing all this research last year of the last years. Also for my courses. I met a lot of people and I talked to To a lot of suppliers, I talked to a lot of interior designers all over the world. Yeah. And anyone in this industry, really not just designers. And I came across so many people that was flooded all over the world. And I thought I need to bring them all together because I thought, Do you know this person? She actually issues in the US as well, like, oh, no, I never never. I always thought I was the only vegan interior design. I was like, well, you're definitely not. How about do you know, this supplier? That supplier? And I'm like, No, didn't know, can you send me the details on, you know, that happened so many times that I thought, well, there's so many vegan food events, there's vegan Fashion Week, there needs to be vegan Interior Design Week. And it my, of course, my plan was to have this as an in person event, you know, where you can touch things and feel things. But then it's not possible at this current state of the world. And also, it's actually for first time event, it's probably good that it's online. Because this way, I was able to pull in all these different speakers, I have 30 speakers from all over the world, from South Africa, from the US from the UK, from Australia, from from India, you know, this way I could pull them all in. And the same for exhibitors, we are foreign exhibitors from all places in the world. And they'll now have their virtual exhibitors booth, but it's still it's still bringing together a big community of people. And the main goal was to create this little community of vegan interior designers and suppliers. But then I thought, well, it's nice if they all mingle, but people need to know about this too. So there's 30 talks of a five days. And it's about a lot of different things. It is about vegan materials and finishes, like the basic interior design components. But there's also talks about how to communicate your vegan values with non vegan clients from a vegan psychologist, or there's a vegan investor talking and talking about how he sees trends that he's followed in the in vegan foods over the past years, how he's seeing them in design and in materials now. And so, it's a very, it's not just for interior designers, it's not just for vegans, it's meant to be for everyone who lives or works or sleeps in a space. I keep saying that, because peoples are Yeah, that you can choose. And that's great. But I'm not the designer type or like, well, but you sleep in a bed, right, and you paint your walls, you need to know how to do this the best way to stay healthy. And, you know, to do it in a sustainable way. So there's something you can learn from this. So yeah, there's it's going to be a week full of panel discussions and talks, but then also, one on one, networking sessions with just one of the points that was really important for me to include. So there's networking sessions, where people are just randomly matched. And they can talk for 10 minutes. And I've done this in the past and a whole lot of different conferences and events. And I always love that networking, when you're matched with someone, you might not have anything in common. You might not, you know, get a business deal out of it. But there's always something you learn from these interactions. And I love these networking and these speed networking things. And it's online, it's so easy, you know, you talk to someone for 10 minutes. And that's it. It's not really a big deal, but he can get so much out of it. So, yeah, that's all that's all happening in November. It's not it's not far away.
Jim Moore 44:20
So amazing, is genuinely like incredible, what a fantastic resource. And, like you said, sort of design is either everyone is everyone's touching design all the time. They're either doing it themselves, like they're making choices in their own kind of homes and spaces and workspaces, which is all you know, designed to some extent, or if they're not kind of making those choices, they're living with the choices that they've either paid somebody to make or that they've purchased from a store. I think it's just so I love this idea of like, you know, being part of that process, even if you don't feel like you are and
Aline Düerr 44:57
you know, when I rebranded My company I thought about the name for so long, like, do I call it vegan interior design? Or does that put people off? Do I care if I put people off? Or is that what it is? And is that what I want to draw? So? Yeah, every now and then I think I should have just called it healthy, non toxic homes. You know, cruelty free living, because living our homes that talks to people much more because they think, oh, yeah, I live in a home or I am living, interior design for a lot of people's like, Well, I wouldn't hire interior designers. That's really that's some not my my world. But yeah, it is really about just healthy living and healthy homes. But if I would have done that, that it's not doesn't have the same, the same punch. Or the same. Yeah, you know, values. So anyway, it is what it is. And I'm still happy with my choice. But yeah. Have you found it
Jim Moore 46:04
limiting? I mean, I asked because, I mean, I look at YouTube, before we started recording have just left the day job to start my own thing as well. And, and I had exactly the same debate. And I'm probably still having actually, about whether to call it after the name of the podcast, so bloody vegans productions, or whether to come up with something completely different. And I kind of, um, Dennard about whether, you know, it was it was a good thing to have the word vegan in or? Or actually, could I, you know, would I be more of a Trojan horse if I came in without, without mentioning it and kind of slowly, slowly sent people that way? Have you found it? Have you found any kind of detrimental effect to it? Or generally speaking, have you felt, you know, the value driven The Purpose Driven element of it is far out, you know, far outweighs any negatives?
Aline Düerr 47:00
I guess I'm still I'm still testing it in a way. But I'm sure I've driven people away, that were just, you know, looking at anything while I'm not vegan. So that's not for me. But that doesn't really matter. Because, yeah, that the purpose of it is that what my reasoning was, it might drive people away. But it might also bring people in that think what the interior design is vegan now to like, What the hell is that all about? And I think I just wanted a company to be out there called Vegan interior design, and there wasn't so so it had to be me. And I feel like because I'm also more on the educational side of things now and more focusing on that. That's fine, because people definitely like students sign up. Yeah, students are mostly non vegan, rather than vegan, and they just want to learn about it. They just find it interesting. And they might want to include it in their work or in their services or not. But I mean, most of them do afterwards. But and I think, for that, for that educational side, it's definitely beneficial. Yeah, as an interior designer, who just wants to design houses and offices, or, you know, just design day to day, it's probably more detrimental because it cuts out a large piece of the market. Then again, another speaker at my conference, and he also took part in a panel discussion is David from the vegan business tribe. Yeah, and he said a year ago, he still told people will maybe you want to use an alternative to the world via to the word vegan, maybe use cruelty free or something else? Because the world might not be ready for it. And a year later now, he tells everyone no, definitely use it because it's, it's become trendy. It's become a real seller and and people are interested in it and especially non vegans still buy vegan food or vegan products because they think it's so and yeah, yes. If you only cater for the vegan market, well, you're not really going to make a living out of it in a lot of industries. But in my industry, I feel like as long as you explain why Vegan interior design has beneficial, which is not only for the animals, but it's especially for people's health and for the environment. As long as you get that point across, through your marketing and through, you know, everything you put out there it's, it's still attracting a lot of people, even if it's just for the novelty of of it, you know, for now, obviously, we hope that it's going to be the default option at some point. But yeah, well see,
Jim Moore 50:39
one thing that happened was novelty in Congress. Exactly. And what's novelty in conversation one with somebody, you know, I think by the time they've thought about it, and it's, you know, the cokes have turned, it might be a year might be three months, you know, who knows what the timeframe is, but later, I think these seeds are sown, you know, if I think back about my own journey, often describe it as I watched Cowspiracy. And the next day I was vegan. But actually, looking back, there was probably road signs along the way conversations with different people, things that were sown a seed that I didn't even think about. So I think I think you're absolutely right, there might be a company out there thinking, I'll get in touch with a lien and you know, we can this will help kind of get our green credentials if we design our new office to be vegan. And yeah, that might be how they think initially, and then they might actually go down the road and think, Joe, was that that was that is the right thing to do, you know, from a, you know, our sort of vision and purpose of our business. So yeah, I'm with you, I'm with you,
Aline Düerr 51:41
I feel like we're still struggling within in our industry is that, well, every project is price driven, if it's a residential one, or commercial one, it's price driven, is availability. It's, it's, it's the easiness to get things. And as long as, as long as the price is comparable, and it's available in the timeframe you want. People don't have a problem with it. And they're really happy to do it. As soon as we have to pay it. Pay extra or wait two weeks longer. Like with everything, you know, it'll get cut out. And you'll just have to find a different alternative. But um, I think we are getting there. And it's also you know, the longer I work in the space, the more alternatives I know and the more savvy I am to find another vegan alternative that will work. But um, I guess Yeah, it's a little bit of a time, a question of time. So much is happening like cactus leather. From Mexico, I think, I don't know how long they've actually been doing this. It's relatively new. But it's everywhere. Now cactus leather. This, I don't know if you've seen it. But yeah, they've got a massive range of colours. But they've got this really distinctive green, typical cactus, green leather, and I see it everywhere. Now. It's popping up everywhere. And that's actually good to use for furniture as well. And it's only been over the last year and a half, I've really noticed them. And there's so many other examples like that one. And I feel like it's just yet it's growing really fast. And a lot of people in the industries are as another five to 10 years until we catch up, but I don't think so. I think I think it's happening. And I think, you know, the, the thing is, the more people ask for it, the more companies will have to actually look into it. Yeah, so, yeah.
Jim Moore 54:05
Yeah, definitely an element of supply and demand. I'd imagine just even folks who've picked up your book, and asked the question of a paint supply that they use, or you know, anybody, I think even that question being asked is probably a trigger for some for a company to think, Oh, I didn't realise that there. People are interested in this kind of subject. So the more of us who pick up a copy of your book, attended design, we learn this stuff, and then try and start applying some of those decisions to our own lives. I think
Aline Düerr 54:36
perfectly even if you just take a few steps, you know, even if you just start with something you use every day, so it's worth using it. Changing changing it.
Jim Moore 54:53
There's the quote Alene even if you start with with toilet, I love it. But it's out It's been amazing chatting with you, I absolutely want to make sure though, before I let you go, that we we cover off how folks can get a copy of the book, how folks can get involved with the Design Week, and where they can find out more about you the courses and so on. There's so much to share.
Aline Düerr 55:18
So well, book and courses and information, everything. It's all on my website, and that's vegan interior. design.com Pretty straightforward. And then vegan Interior Design Week has its own website and it's bigger interior design week.com. And yeah, it's those two websites that have all the information and I share a lot of facts and information on Instagram and Facebook as well. Like I have a daily post and whether that's a quote or like I have themes like on Wednesday it's what do I call it the unpleasant facts we don't like to share facts we don't like with facts we don't enjoy sharing that's how I phrase it and it's always one fact about a wall or silk or you know, something cruel, right? But then it's it's framed with other posts like this amazing new vegan hotel in Santorini and then pictures of that and this amazing fabric out of dinner out of apples. So I have put a lot of this information on my Instagram as well just to keep it in people's feeds to think about these little things
Jim Moore 56:50
we'll get some links in all for all of those those sites to your Instagram etc as well on on the show notes. So thank you so much best of luck with the week and and it's been amazing chatting with you thank you
Unknown Speaker 57:05
thank you this is a bloody vegans production