Jack Bieniek
Jim Moore 0:05
This is a bloody vegans production radar Hello, my name is Jim, this is my podcast of bloody vegans. You're very welcome to it. Each week I'll be travelling ever deeper into the world of veganism, discovering along the way a multitude of viewpoints from their political and ethical to their practical. I'll be doing this for a series of conversations, each aiming to further illuminate my understanding, and hopefully yours, of all things, plant centric, and this week is no different. Before we get started, as the usual bits of admin, there are a few ways in which you can support the bloody vegans podcast, if you enjoy this content, firstly, and free of charge is head to your podcast provider of choice and leave a lovely review. Ideally, five stars if they have a star rating system, that would be great. Thank you very much in advance for that. You can support financially too. So there are a couple of ways to do that. If you're an apple podcast subscriber, you can head over to the Apple podcast app. And for 99 Glorious pence a month in sterling is also available around the world in your currency of choice. You can get access to episodes in advance, and all kinds of other content as we go down the line. We'll be adding more into that subscriber package too. So please do support the podcast that way if you're an apple podcast subscriber, but never fear if you're not, because you can head over to Patreon either via the app or the website and search for bloody vegans podcast. And there are a variety of different ways to support via that method. And there's some rewards in exchange for that as well. I think there's merchandising and all kinds of wonderful stuff in there. So if you would like to do any of those things and support the podcast then please do. That's pretty much it for the admin. Let's go on to the episode, shall we? So in this week's episode, I am joined by Jack Brainiac, he is the founder of Jack Berry. They make honey amongst other things. And before you're rushed to your podcast provider to leave a negative review, thinking what are we talking about honey for? We're talking about vegan honey, so no, bee honey. It really is fantastic. I thoroughly recommend y'all try it. But the particularly interesting thing to me about Jack story, Jack, the founder is that he's actually gone vegan, pretty much as a result of founding this company and then going through the journey of learning about honey and raw honey and so on so forth. And in the last probably only six months or so, Jack himself has gone vegan as a result of producing this product and the conversations he's had. So it's a wonderful story very interesting indeed. And let's let's get on with it, shall we? So without further ado, here's a conversation between me and Jack Benny ACK of Jack Berry
Jack Bieniek 3:29
like I was always trying to eat healthy and some time ago, I've met now friend person called Carl and we had a chat and they started to talk to me, like you know, really good conversation and debate my facts on the table He's fact on the table and he started to ask me questions. Why do you think why? Why do you think Why would you eat or drink milk to start with? So I don't know, I think it's fine. So okay, isn't it and then he opened my eyes. And obviously, put some facts put some articles are starting to do my own research. He pointed me in the right direction. And I found out about how the dairy business is actually run. What happens to cows what happens to even small male cows after after the birth and, and so on, which was quite heartbreaking. And you know, slowly, slowly. Over months, I started to look into it from a different angle and until a point where I just lost a sense and the taste of anything and our thought there's no point it's just I thought I've got to do something. And it was just coming up coming up. Coming up, and there were a few more facts added to it about the meats, and so on and so on. And I thought, No, this is it, I'm just gonna go from perspective of nutrition. I was I was asking myself a question, how am I gonna do it? That was dreading me. And I was pushing it back pushing it back. But then I found a way. And, you know, it's, it's been a few weeks. But I think, for the time being, when I struggle, I've got either porridge with seeds or seeds with porridge. So it helps a lot, especially in this first few weeks. But, you know, I'm open to trying the recipes, and running the company with whole foods, it's helping because we come up with different recipes, we look for things, and we share them. So I think it's good. And then and that's how it started off.
Jim Moore 5:54
I incredible, incredible, and, and so early on in the journey, but but so it feels like so well positioned, you know, being in the business that you're in, you know, you talk about the seeds. Yeah, and so on, and the honey, and we'll get onto that, obviously, but it feels like you were sort of vegan adjacent for some time before making this switch. Yeah, it was
Jack Bieniek 6:14
it was in the books. I mean, you know, it's it's a mostly we were thinking like, you know, for years and years, we were more on the vegetarian diet rather than just for omnivores. And so it was just sticking along, ticking along, ticking along. It's just, I needed someone to actually convince me and show me the ropes. And that was just like, I was so quick and happy within a couple of months. And that's it. I was all done. And I struggled I have to I have to meet you know, the stinky cheese is not my favourite. So I prefer porridge and seeds are better. And I found out that I'd prefer the oatmeal rather than almond milk, because we can talk about it later on what milk is to do with bees and pollinating as well. So I've got a few facts for you as well. Yeah, so I thought it needs time to find your own things, replacements and so on. So on. I'd rather cook something from from scratch rather than buy at supermarkets because first of all, I've got no time to go around and look at the labours at the back of what's in it. You know, if you replace something, you can find a lot of chemicals, a lot of things which are unknown, really well are found recently, two enzymes in a strong white bread flour. And one of them could be derived from plants and animals. And that's quite surprising. And so yeah, so you need to be aware of what you having, what you're eating and always read ingredients. So I thought right, let's start from scratch and better to cook at home. Hence the porridge and seeds and season policies. You know, like plugging the gaps but slowly, slowly, we'll get into even posted today a really nice coconut flour. chocolate balls.
Jim Moore 8:16
Yeah, so it's, you know,
Jack Bieniek 8:18
it's getting, it's getting
Jim Moore 8:21
worse. And I love that approach. Like I'm gonna, I'm gonna go like more whole foods plant based rather than Yeah, sort of processed vegan, pure. And I love the idea of purely because, you know, the reading the labels is a hassle. And be there's this minefield out there. I had exactly this position recently where somebody said to me about shampoo actually. But they were saying what's not vegan about this, and I read through the ingredients. And it was one of those those situations where there was an enzyme that was could be derived from animals could be derived from plants, depending on which way the company had gone. And without the sort of vegan certification to tell you, you're basically left with I wouldn't risk it, you know, personally, but so is I think it's a great approach. If you're cooking Whole Foods, you know what you're getting, right. Yeah,
Jack Bieniek 9:11
also, you've mentioned a certification is a lot of you go to supermarkets, and there's a lot of vegan friendly or vegan with a funny name on the sign on it. I never trust this because anyone can call or flower for example, flower like the one I've mentioned. Yeah, let's call it a vegan. Why not? But you don't know if that enzyme which is in that flower has been derived from plants or animals. So how can you tell that that flower is vegan? Supposedly Whole Foods, and then the whole flower? Like let's say, we've got quite a lot of flowers registered with the Vegan Society for the purpose of that, that it's clean. It's clear, and you've got what you'd say. Well It's actually in the, in the back without any infusion, edit products or so on as I always say it's a grain milled. And that's pulling the paper back. That's it. That's, that's us. And if you got that with the Vegan Society UK on it, that means that it's safe. And I'd rather buy the product which is certified by the body I respect, then just some sort of, you know, company selling in a supermarket telling me oh, it's vegan, and then you don't know what you're eating. And yeah, it's it's, it's a lot of it's a minefield, it's a minefield, but we're trying to talk to people we're trying to educate, we're trying to help out and know, um, we always open for some comments. And, you know, people come in and asking them we chatting and you know, always learn something. Because talking is good. It's good to talk, like,
Jim Moore 10:57
oh, yeah, absolutely is Yeah, absolutely. Especially in the vegan community, I think it's very good to talk, you know, that's the, that's the way we sort of all educate each other. Because like you say, it's an absolute minefield, it really is, it'd be good to get a little bit of background on the business, where did it start,
Jack Bieniek 11:15
as I've mentioned earlier, it's, we're always in a healthy thing. And my background is in health and care as well. So part of my life I spent, not long path, that short part as a personal trainer. So nutrition was a part of it. And then obviously, that has developed something else. But I was always into healthy eating and trying to find things which are, now I can call him raw Whole Foods at that time, I just wanted something healthy. And so when I became a nurse, everything was to do with evidence research, and so on, and so on. And that allowed me to find out a bit more and on in a more sophisticated way, about the products we eat on an everyday basis. So the interest was still there. But now I had access to the libraries, you know, universities, libraries. So I started to look at what's actually good for your body for certain things you want to achieve. And then you know, so if you want to lose weight, if you want to gain some muscle and things like that, and I always remember my grandma saying, just go back to basics, just eat simple and just just think about just raw Whole Foods. Like, obviously, she said that in in different way. But yeah, that's what you're always cooking from scratch. And that's, that's, that's something and it was always in the back of my mind. And, you know, going with that, we thought, okay, let's make a step forward and see what what else we can do, I found few articles in preparing for at work and simple things like brown lean seats, are suddenly started to look at this whole foods differently from before it was just a addition to, to your porridge or your like some products you can use on with yoghurt, and, and fruits. Suddenly, I started to look at this differently. So as a source of fibre as a sort of source of proteins, vitamins, minerals, and so on and so on. And suddenly that just started to grow and grow. And I thought, Well, why not? If we start educating people, the best education is if you talk and you sell the product, and then you actually give it to someone and say, Look, start using this man, because he's good for you. And then and then I think two years later, we were sitting here talking about the business where we've got quite right acquired a range of natural raw seeds, different types of flowers, you name it, we've got it. And also the other thing was were talking about co2 talking about also the goodness, we were concentrated, we concentrate ourselves on a range of where we geographically are. So either UK north of Europe, this parts of the globe, because then it's more related to us the products which we source, rather than getting almonds. People will ask me or why you haven't got almond flour and says, Look, this is from we don't grow it here. We don't grow it anywhere around around ourselves. Why would I ship that? millet and sell it is just not with with. It's not, you know, not our way I would say. So as Yeah, briefly how it started and we still got Thanks. Um, maybe not things but because of the pandemic, we can introduce new products. So it's just waiting for the business to pick up slightly better. And then we will be introducing more more. It's quite a lot, quite a lot of we've got in the pipeline, but slowly, slowly, hopefully, we'll get that.
Jim Moore 15:36
But I'd love to talk a little bit about this nutritional benefit of seeds because I'll be honest, pre going vegan, I probably didn't, that the the idea of any, any seeds in my diet was probably not something I even contemplated, apart from, you know, if there was seeds that happened to be on a, on a loaf of bread or something that I was eating, there's, you know, on top, but since going vegan, I've been very aware of you know, whether it's chia seeds, or pumpkin seeds, sunflower seeds, all these different seeds and their potential nutritional benefits is from your experience. Is that the sort of the, the typical kind of Western diet, missing out on a lot of kind of micronutrients? Because of not the because of the lack of inclusion of these things. Yeah, in that sort of the standard.
Jack Bieniek 16:24
As good if it's a really good question, because talking to people what I've noticed, and it's not northern think we thought that maybe it's local, like Lancashire or you know, no northern part not west east. Now, but I've travelled to a few places down south London lightened boosted this sort of areas, and speaking to people and oh, yeah, well, would I use seeds? What for analysis? Or have you tried to see for example, like, maybe some some fresh fruits? Any type of yoghurt, your preference, and maybe some seeds on top with a bit of funny, or vegan honey? No, why would I have to add on as this this is, you know, this is God's breakfast. This is packed with everything and Oh, okay. And then five minutes later, they actually Oh, I didn't know that. I didn't know that. I didn't know that brown linseed oil, golden linseeds are packed with proteins and so on, and says, yeah, if you start calculating that I showed him the 200 bag of ice, and he says if you'd had half of it. Like, what was it the pumpkin seeds? We've got in 200 gramme bag and I says, Look, if you munch on that for an hour, you will probably eat 100 grammes. That's like you've just eaten a steak is equivalent of plant based protein. This is I can't believe it. I can't believe it. This mathematics is common sense is just simplicity. And yeah, so people started but it's really difficult when these types of products were not present. In in our diet for for a long, long time. And people think seeds, oh, yeah, you plant them and you grow something out of them. And I says yes. But if you if you know that they're growing. Think about it. Seed tiny little seeds got so much potential to grow the whole plant or a tree. And then suddenly, people started saying, oh, yeah, are you right? You're like, Oh, yeah. Oh, maybe it is good. Maybe it is good. So yes. And then you show him some nutritional information and you talk to them, you give them more information and slowly, slowly changing because it's a lot of talk, but it's good education. And, you know, having having and having people coming back to us, and it's like we're doing different charter markets, different stalls, events, and, and you got returned customers and happy and says, Look, I want to go I want to get that I want to get that. That bag of seeds. It's for me, it's like, extension to my nursing career. It's something I've helped I've tried to educate and it's like, you know, it's just made my day just come back. That's That's brilliant. And that's that's the beautiful part of the of that business. When the people coming back. They're happy and they want yeah, you know what, I've learned something from you. This is this is why I'm doing it as well. I love that
Jim Moore 19:26
I love that they really the nursing career hasn't really stopped Oh, it's just as I say it's like different
Jack Bieniek 19:31
days. It's I love that part. You know, I'm still doing nursing shifts to to support the business. But when I go out there and it's I'm not wearing uniform, but it's still kind of yes the help the education and we've had a few customers have recommended something else as look I'm not I'm not telling you this because I'm selling seeds but I'm selling honey, I'm selling this The other are flowers. But at the end of the day if you put them together, and I've given a few people, some mixes and things and some people say work, some people didn't, but it depends, you know, I'm not a doctor, I'm not a GP, I can't just assess. But if it helps you that I'm be happy. And, you know, simple things like brown lean seats. People didn't know that. A lot of people don't know that. They've got two types of soy sauce, fibre. So that's good for you for let's not go there. Yeah, but we need to as a whole nation, we think on from all the European countries, we arrived at the bottom. And if we're talking about consumption of fibre, so that's not good. And it's not good for gas. It's not good for your health, immune system. Everything starts from the gut. So if you get that information to people, and they start to understand why is it so important, then? slightly, slightly changing the perspective?
Jim Moore 21:06
Yeah, 100% Love, love that. I'd love to get into honey. So let's talk about honey. So the the, the the arguments for eating traditional bees, honey, and then the the kind of what is the product that that you are offering as a as an alternative? Let's talk about
Jack Bieniek 21:31
Yeah, was when we looked at honey, we thought, right, it's the natural raw honey, it's especially cold filtered. You know, you can't deny certain types of honey, they got really good health benefits. So we thought, yeah, that's fine. But if we're looking at the vegan option, or there's there's nothing there. And there is a lot of vegan honey alternatives, but they got different flavours and so on and so on. And we thought there's nothing really close as to remind people of that honey. And so it took us a while until we got to the point where we can actually present something then we've gone through certification with the Vegan Society, UK, scrutinise our paperwork and everything. And we finally launch product which I can show you. That's a litre jar couldn't find a smaller one. No be given. So that was launched in July, shortly after one of our first event was in Newcastle and lime, local vegan festival slash event. So we went with our honeys. And this is all Yeah, well, we'll see how it sells. There were two of us on the stall. I think we started at 10 o'clock. And we were doing tasting, because we thought right, people will not believe it. There's a lot of products similar to that vegan honey alternatives. There's a lot of, but we need to get people and start trying it. Jim, we didn't stop for five hours. Honest to go with stuff for five hours, there was a tasting, tasting, purchasing, testing, purchasing. I mean, at the end of the day, we were thinking we should have had a camera camera installed in our gazebo, the people's faces we've seen and people's reaction to the tasting of it. It was unbelievable. We had a woman who started to cry and we thought oh my god, is it? Is it that bad? Or? No, no, I haven't had that taste for 20 years. And you know, I still got goosebumps when I talk about this because you know someone who hasn't had a taste or scent of a honey for 20 years, she was actually in tears. And we together with her so it's it's it's moving. It's emotional. And it was a good day we'll come in there for Christmas market. But this time, there's this much bigger awareness of what we selling. The product is picking up but we'll obviously we need some exposure. It's it's based on natural products. So and it's exactly the same as natural honey. And that's what people ask what is what what is what it is. So you've got glucose and fructose in the same ratio and as in natural honey, as we all know honeys, mix is of glucose and fructose. We've added white flowers, normal metal white flowers, certain flowers, floral scents and esters derived from that and we need to add citric acid also natural otherwise normally it just It's been created in the hive over time. And bit of a perfumery like to get it all you know put together and then you've got the result. So I'm I'm very happy and that it worked, it's working and people coming back and we start even have non vegans buy in it due to the fact that first Firstly, it bakes well. So if you want a cheaper option than honey, so you can bake with it, it resembles the smell and the taste of a honey. Some people just decide at Rice instead of buying expensive honey to put them on the porridge just for taste of it, I might just use use this. And that resembles of honey and then that's, they like it. So slowly, slowly, we're getting there. I love this idea.
Jim Moore 25:53
We you know, when you agree the ingredients list, everything is understandable. Everything's clear. Everything feels very natural. Was that was that incredibly important to you, when you were setting out going through this trial and error of getting the right label?
Jack Bieniek 26:08
As I said, it's perfumery, people don't think, Oh, you got three or four ingredients in in this process? Yes, but it's a lot of work to make it all happen. And it's like someone asked me one of the first events and they said, Oh, can you have like, this flavour, that flavour and I'm thinking look, otherwise I'll be defeating the object. There's no point of me doing honey which resembles of a lemon or orange flavour because it won't, it wouldn't be honey, we were just focused on honey, maybe in the future, we think about different scents and, you know, different tastes. But I think at the moment, what I've seen in this new class, online, and online, I think just go for the Hanneke resembling products, because that's that's popular. That's what a lot of people from who are vegans, they they lack that and nothing this is a good option. And also it's it's nice to see bakeries asking or can we actually bake on that it's a cheap option as well. So, you know, in a long term, we saving bee population and sending them on holiday. So not
Jim Moore 27:27
let's talk a little bit about the sort of the vegan arguments against your traditional kind of honey made Nightbeat what and for people who are new to veganism often this is something you know, something I get asked a lot by people who are brand new to veganism is like, well, what's the problem with with honey? So I'm going to ask that question to you as a man who's well in the field and what what what and I'm asking it as devil's advocate, obviously, somebody who runs a vegan podcast I should do this but but but what's the problem with with with honey, traditional honey?
Jack Bieniek 28:00
Yeah, traditional honey. Let's start from the Vegan Society, UK, their view ease no matter what the beekeeping is classed as exploitation of bees. And then on the other side, you've got arguments, oh, wait a second. But if I keep a beehive or two beehives in my extensive garden, right on the back of a farm, why wouldn't be not? Why would you say that it's exploitation. So and I'm really really gentle with the bees, I, I take just enough for myself and my family. And they just flourish and just fly around. And they you know, they have, you know, you look at them, they're all happy. So that's one argument then then you got something which we call commercial beekeeping. And that is total. And I would agree with that. That's total exploitation. I think we've mentioned earlier that whatever the honeys in supermarkets, you can you can see it's not honey as the raw or cold filtered or not kill cold filter, you don't know where it comes from. It's normally usually no matter where it comes from, it's either blend of something or blend of different hands coming from different parts of the world. I don't want to go into more politics, but mainly that's what it is. Commercial beekeeping will be always focused on profits. And that's where exploitation can occur. So yes, that both arguments on both sides. Especially from the point of view of new vegans yet there will be struggling or shall I shall I not one, one group says Oh, it's okay. And I've met a lot of vegans who are who will go for natural honey for the medical or medical purposes? But then and then also there's a group of vegans who will say no, definitely not, I will not touch it. So, you know, it's it's, I don't want to be, don't judge anyone, but it's your opinion. However, what we tried to do, we're trying to educate people, and introducing products, which are long side of the natural honey, and totally discontinuing not even going into commercial beekeeping and commercial honeybees. But thinking about this small businesses or small hives, you know, small gardeners who have got local honey, and, and our no be vegan honey. And actually, you you you put a spanner in the works, you given people the option that now you can actually choose, you can choose something for the, you know, if we start that for a hope for few years, people will see oh, wait a second, I've got the alternatif. But I can always go to a local farmer and get something from local. And I hope I hope that this will be ethically if there is a way of calling it ethically sourced honey. So we trying to be against the commercial, big beekeeping, manufacturing, you know, the big companies. And hopefully we will achieve that by you know, educating people and giving them the option. That's, that's where we are with this debate. But there's a lot of examples I can give you from one side of the fence and from the other. And we can debate forever and forever. I think you know, if we cut that debate, and just just let's let's look at the options, because if people want to have fun, you want to stop them. But I think the the problem lies somewhere else. We are not aware of why we do in the beekeeping. And that's what we mentioned earlier, this is more to do with the environment. And why we actually keep the bees in the first place because one of the arguments for beekeeping is, are we helping the bees flourish? Because we're keeping them and we look after them, and so on and so on. And that's where we slightly divert from this debate. Because from our point of view, the whole thing about beekeeping is not only about beekeeping is about the environmental issues. And that's where we wanted to give people options and educate so we can actually talk about other other things above that debate, if you know what I mean.
Jim Moore 32:57
Yeah, absolutely. And I've had people talk about this before where they've said, like you say, there's that argument that says, well, actually, by me buying Honey, what I'm doing is I'm perpetuating bee populations, actually, because there's more more honey bees being kept, if you like, by, by honey manufacturers. But then I've had the, you know, I've had many people within the vegan community have sort of helped me along the learning journey, particularly at the beginning of said, well, actually, that's one species of, of bee. And there are a tonne of wild bees that are actually being almost pushed out by by this this overpopulation of honeybees. And so, there is no problem with the honeybee population, there is a problem with the wild bee population, which are these, you know, big pollinators and so on. And also, I think we were talking before the before we started recording and I'd love to get your, your your perspective on this one around. actually thinking about the bigger picture around pollination and what you know, the other pollinators around the landscape. It'd be great to get your your perspective on Yeah.
Jack Bieniek 34:01
Like we said, I even talked to someone yesterday and says, Oh, yeah, we need to keep the bees because they pollinators. So without bees, we will not have our potatoes and this and the other. So tomatoes and you know, vegetables and so on. This is Yes, of course. But if you look at like you said honeybees, there's only a part of the whole let's say let's call them community of insects who are pollinators. And I mentioned that earlier if you look at why the Populate the bee or insect population is dropping down massively from 1990s is due to a few things either in industrialization, the farming, fertilising and also cutting forest down grazing grass and so on and so on. So it's really really complex subjects. And I don't know if you travel but a lot of people listening to travel around Europe, they travel around UK. And I hope a lot of people will agree that coming back from Europe and going through the channel, and then going into UK, yeah, of course, we've got a lot of green areas, but they grazed. And then you have few farm animals there, and they're on the side of the motorway, but there's no forest, there's no wildflower meadows, there's, you know, there's no rewinded areas where, where insects and small animals can flourish. I think this is the way we're where we should be looking at and changing the whole landscape to actually bring back the bigger numbers of pollinators, but also small animals, and etc. And then I've mentioned to you the project in Oxfordshire, with bringing back the redkite that that's been successful. And then suddenly, that project just stopped and no one's doing anything else. So there's a lot of things we can do. And it's not only the honeybee, it's, you know, looking at the bigger picture to step back and just look at the bigger picture. Why, if we don't plan the vegetables, or grains or anything on the farm lands, why can we just rewire them, just just stop grazing it every year and just just rebuild it? You know, that's, that's what I would like to talk to farmers. But I think I'm not in a position to talk to farmers, I think governments should. So that's less.
Jim Moore 36:35
Yeah, no, I agree. I agree. It is fascinating point. I remember, you know, those sort of, you know, childhood kind of train journeys through kind of UK countryside, and you look out the window, and always, you know, you always have this view growing up, you know, when I wasn't kind of aware of the environmental aspects wasn't vegan at the time, and so on so forth. You sort of told from a young age this is this is beautiful green countryside. And now I look at it and I think, what was there? What was there before this big expanse of grazed grass, and just a hedge row? And you're absolutely right, what was probably there was was a lush, diverse green forest land, which was teeming with life, and is probably now almost desertified. Really, it's, it's just grass. And what must that be doing from a pollination point of view from a never an environmental standpoint, co2 levels, etc. It's, I think, I think you're absolutely right, we've got to look at the bigger picture here. Rather than just, you know, almost trying to buy our way out of environmental disaster. And if I buy more honey, is somehow going to solve this problem. This is a much bigger picture picture.
Jack Bieniek 37:55
But also you've mentioned I spoke to a few beekeepers and says, Look, yeah, there's not a problem to have bee bee hives anywhere. But then if you really care about your bees and that population and you try to, you know, help the bees and provide for them, then you need to start thinking where you put your hives because if you put the hives and saw Yeah, brilliant farmland at the back, but then it doesn't help that the farm will be fertilised because this what's the point? You actually either have your lovely local honey with full of fertilisers not really healthy staff and and then obviously the beast will not be happy because it's not good for their health. So you know, there's more to it than just just just easy solutions. There's always someone says, someone said to me, oh, yeah, it's fine. It's local. I can keep this and and so as this Do you know where your bees fly? Oh, local gardens and things I was right. Yeah. Probably on that little on the big roundabout in the centre of Manchester or Blackpool? You know, if they if they take follows from that, roundabouts are don't want that Honey, I'm sorry. Yeah, so if you can't control the beach where they fly, and that's what I say to people sometimes. I know where what's going into know bvq and honey, right? Because I know but you can't control the bees where they fly. And you don't know what they're gonna bring. Same with the you know, it's a lot of things it's I know there's a lot of diseases and parasites with with the bees, but if you really speak to where beekeepers they telling and they even when I was researching and comparing myself to this I've I've read a few Blocks from a beekeepers. Yeah, same debate vegan, non vegan. And even beekeepers are saying, Look, this is not cheap hobby. So, and and we've had examples, and we were told, and I've even seen the footage is that it's easier for some beekeepers, I'm not even talking about big companies, but some beekeepers will will destroy the Hive at the end of the season because it's cheaper to buy the new hive and newbies at after winter. So yeah, just take as much as you can off to honey, and then destroy the hive. What's the point? What's the point? Yeah,
Jim Moore 40:43
yeah, it's purely purely kind of profit driven really, isn't it? When you look at the
Jack Bieniek 40:46
pens, on one side, the prices of honey are going up. But there's a lot of like we've said, a lot of blends out there. And I don't know where it comes from. And if if you read on on the label, and we'll come back to the labels, again, ingredients, if you look at this, and it's a blend of something and something and something, you need to start thinking, Where is it actually coming from? And why would you blend it? Right? I'd rather have something I know where it comes from? And then then just just have something which is from unknown, I would say. So.
Jim Moore 41:31
We I mean, you're absolutely right, make a really valid point, you know, when you write blended on it, why are you writing on it? Is it because you, you can't specify where it's from could be from anything, anywhere, because otherwise you wouldn't, if you knew you'd be proud of that. And
Jack Bieniek 41:47
ourselves. As you know, as a business, we need to be aware that every product comes with the data sheet. So you were scrutinised by different bodies, different checks, you know, the certifications and so on and so on. So, we as a retail customers, when we go to supermarket, we can't ask for data sheets of these products in particular and we have no knowledge of what is actually in this product, we are only limited that little label at the back with ingredients on it. And I spoke to a minute before we were talking about honey as bread is a prime example. bread and flour, prime example if you look at the ingredients in our normal everyday bread, white or brown, whatever. I've been noticing that and for few years now taking pictures from time to time how the ingredients in our daily bread are changing. Unbelievable gene is just unbelievable. To the point where I can not even read or pronounce the ingredients in our bread a few years back and that was a different types of ingredients. Now we've got totally different and God knows what's going to be in couple of years. I I even said that a couple of weeks ago that I wouldn't be surprised if someone gave us a pill and associate put it in a bowl or I put some water and it will just grow because it will be so artificial that he just you can just have it on the plate in the form of a pill. It's just it's not on bread is you know in my in my imagination and my knowledge it's supposed to be flour. And as that's where good thing comes. You don't even have to have a yeast. We tried to promote sourdough because it's a natural as it comes from mediaeval times. This was always the bread, water and flour and bit of salt. And that's it. That's your bread. That's how it should be. So why would you put so many ingredients into it? flavourings and so on and so on to make it nice and fluffy. And the ingredients I've mentioned earlier, you know in a flower than two enzymes, I found that they Yeah, one derived from either plants or animals another one derived from plants. I didn't know what they do until I researched that and I found out that they during the baking process they reducing fibre. So another phone calls to the bakeries, few few Baker friends and I says so why would you do that? You know, why would you reduce fibre? This is what we need. And this is right. My friend says was a bike and this is why you're reducing fibre because fibre needs water. So in a baking process, you've got more fibre. Anyone, any Baker can tell you that. So using more fibrous flowers, you will have to put more water. So why would you do that on a mass scale producing, let's say millions and millions of bread, that's a huge, huge water bill. Right. And then once you limiting the water, you saving money. And that's that's what it is. And no one no one cares about your gut. At the end of the day, no one cares what you're eating, how you were, you know how your body's changing. And are found the link that since the changes were implemented in late 2008 2000, just before 2010 2000 789, the changes started to creep up on us. Until now, there's a lot of people and with either, as they call themselves with Intel around intolerant, or are gluten intolerant, and so on, and so on, look, you know, it's the fact of their silly uk uk website, you can tell you that it's just creeping up. So and there's a lot of people who don't even want to go to the doctors, because they struggle every day not knowing what the problem is. But as soon as you start tweaking certain things, you realise that, oh, I'm less bloated, oh, I started to ask, I dropped that effect to Whole Foods, I actually feel better. And you know, so there's a link in between. And I'm not in a position to say,
one way or the other, because I haven't got access to labs to do certain tests, but I could put my head on the fact that it's all linked together. Because once people go in on the whole foods diet and eat programme, I, you know, stop eating certain processed foods, I feel better. I've lost a kilo already, just not doing anything, just changing the diet. And so the so that's, that's, you know, within a couple of weeks, so that that is working, and pandemic, when that when it started. And we we started to bake bread at home. Because it was easy. Obviously, we had product access to different flowers. And we thought all right here, let's tell listeners this. I've never baked bread before, but I've learned how to do it. And Jim honest, I've never been bloated since. So there's a link. But as soon as I go to the shop and buy a shop when I'm driving or something, and I buy a sandwich got, um, double in size. So there's a link. And it's not only me saying that there's a lot of people come in and talking and we're talking on the stalls or, or markets. And that's what they say, Yes, you ride you ride. And it's it's just common sense. Really, it's just common sense.
Jim Moore 48:02
He say, it's a couple of things you said that really resonated with me, one of them was, you know that it's so obvious. Finally, but, and I kind of knew it on a obviously on a subconscious level. But it's really interesting when someone just calls it out as plainly as you just have. But you accom you know, these companies aren't really interested in your gut health at all. Or it's, it's apparent that it's obvious, really when you think about it, but But yeah, it hadn't occurred to me in that way. They're interested in the profit margin. So if that means changing the ingredients, changing the recipe to you know, if it broadly tastes the same, and therefore they can still sell it. Great. You know, let's let's change the change the recipe, what that then does to people like you so we, we we don't know, really until we we try it and we trial and error and like you say you suddenly feel a bit off or it creep then these things creep up on you those kind of feelings, that kind of bloated feeling the irritable bowel, those kind of things. And like you say, it's only when you remove something, you go to that whole foods kind of plant based diet, you suddenly sort of feel like alcohol a minute, things have changed. Why is that a thing is such a valid point. And really the only people who can be really responsible for their, their health is us. You know, it just makes me think we've got to take control of it, you know ourselves. less of a question more
Jack Bieniek 49:26
of them. Yeah, it's more of a statement. Yeah, but yeah, totally agreed. This is exactly what we stand for and trying to, you know, for her Slyke my friend said, Oh, wow, why you bother? Because why you bother just just sell it or go there go there. You would you would probably sell more of your products if you were just concentrating on your sales rather than talking to people versus Yes, but I don't do it only because I want to achieve certain amount of sales. Yeah, it would help of course it would help But if I don't talk to people, then this is not me. And talking to people and educating, just opening their eyes and opening like, like, like you just said, opening the view on different options. That's what people start to think and in question. And that's always good. Because if you start questioning more of us, questioning things, we've finally get to the point where we can ask around, especially up there, the top says, Hey, what you doing? Why don't you change the laws? And say, right, we don't want this, we don't want that chemical or that chemical in our diet on everyday basis. You know, I'm not talking about myself. But I'm talking about kids. It's a generation if you start this from when you're young, 20 years of abuse, and then you becoming ill. And you got, you know, how is it possible that you've got older generation people, right, remembering more whole foods diet, it's, I'm not, I'm not saying anything. It's just, it's just my observation. And they have less problems with the gut, then Young people nowadays, because young people nowadays they've been, since a younger age, abused with the chemicals and so on. If you add to it, environmental, destruction of environment, the pollution, and so on, and so on, it's just, you know, we're not their immune system is lacking. And hence, we need to go back to something which is more natural with less fertilisers, and it can be done. It's just, you know, someone needs to more of us the better. That's why I think.
Jim Moore 51:59
Yeah, 100% is definitely, just this conversation is just made me think, a little bit more common, and perhaps for the bit more of a clearer mind as to my own, you know, my own nutrition, you know, am I taking control of it? Am I aware of it? You know, we, we are even in the vegan community, I think, you know, I just like everybody get excited when I see a new, you know, new vegan burger or a new vegan chocolate bar or this that in the other. But, you know, am I really, if I looked at the back of the label, or do I understand everything that's on it? Am I comfortable with it? And our current aren't honestly answer that I am at the moment. And it's just this conversation just made me think, you know, maybe maybe I need to do some more research. Take some, you know,
Jack Bieniek 52:45
I just mentioned about the burgers and processed processed foods, and this is what I'm struggling with. Because, yeah, it's easy to get something in a supermarket or shop or Yeah, it's a quick fix. But then, you know, I'm kind of a person I would, I would normally what it is, and no matter how hungry I am, I will always look at the ingredients least, because there's a lot of processed in processed foods, there's a lot of sugars. And that's where we struggling as a whole nation with, you know, the number of diabetes. Patients growing in this country is unbelievable. And even starting with young age, and that was, what was it the what's better? A fruit, right? Five a Day. I don't know if you remember, but 1010 years ago, five a day with five fruits. And suddenly, suddenly, over a few years, we've changed it to oh, let's let's include vegetables. And and that's where, because someone noticed that, oh, if I'm good, mommy will give me chocolates. So I eat five apples, let's say. And then I go home and a bar of chocolate. If you count number of calories and sugar that's actually over the top. But if you three peppers, and two carrots, that's less sugar. Oh, am I getting the batch at the bar of chocolate? So it's healthier? You know, it's counting the calories is a simple maths. So maybe somewhere along the lines, government decided that maybe we swapped the five five fruits for some veggies as well. So it's it's, you know, slowly slowly over the years we've we got to somewhere but I think we need Yeah, we need more education as such, with with all of us including and questioning ourselves, what we're doing what we do in it and and you know, talking about it, like like we just talking about, you know, and I talk to different people on different in different places. I think the awareness is just It's just a matter of time, but we'll get there.
Jim Moore 55:05
Absolutely. And I think you know, with with the likes of companies like yourself, who have, you know, good principles at their core, who are looking not just to make a great product, but to make a great product that kind of helps people and makes them feel, you know, nostalgic about the honey but also, you know, great about those those raw seeds and so on. It's just that the phrase that stuck with me as Gods breakfast and it's made me think about it's made me hungry actually, for tomorrow morning's breakfast, I'm thinking seeds, some vegan yoghurt, obviously and some vegan honey would go down, actually, so I thank you for that. I appreciate you bringing these things in
Jack Bieniek 55:44
it's a quick quick breakfast to make and you know, it's sustainable, it's good. We'll keep you know, with enough plant based protein in the bowl, it will keeps you for hours and hours so why not? And it's a healthy option. Love it.
Jim Moore 56:02
Love it. Jack It's been brilliant chatting with you. It'd be great to let people know where they can go about finding out a bit more about Jack Berry about the vegan honey Perhaps perhaps getting hold of some how would they go about doing
Jack Bieniek 56:17
you can visit our website Jack hyphen berry.com Or just just chuck berry.com or on the go in Google and you find us you can you can purchase there we've got a few retailers or growing numbers of retailers Baker's coming on board and we always invite we're always open to to join any businesses join our little family not not so little but family yes and we're trying to help each other because I always say to small businesses look if we don't stand up together we will be eaten by giants. And I think you know we're trying to do it on the local scale slowly and slowly with with with you know trying to help each other and the number of participants I would say all retailers or small businesses joining us is growing and I'm glad because it's at the end of the day it's more people sharing the same view and sharing the same passion for for healthy eating and you know healthy health conscious people and introducing the whole foods all reintroducing I would say whole foods diet should be priority number one, especially on the government's least so yeah you can find us online you can find us on Facebook Follow us on Facebook on Instagram we there as well. We quite often will post different recipes we're trying to travel around the UK will will be if you're at Birmingham at the end of November we'll be on BBC food show it's a big expensive one but please see us come and visit have a chat with me. And yeah, so we'll be there and any support is more than welcome. So that's that's where you can find Jack I love it. No problem. Thank you so much for your time tonight. For a chance I'll let I'll have
Jim Moore 58:29
I'll have all the links in the show notes as well So folks if you want to go and click those links to check out Jack Berry and bison wonderful beggin honey then then do that. Thanks so much Jack you've been a pleasure. This is a bloody vegans production