Ariel Zachow

Ariel Zachow

Thu, 7/9 7:36PM • 1:00:05

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

yoga, vegan, people, meditation, veganism, life, eat, yoga teacher, world, feel, travelled, activism, super, practice, bit, podcast, physical, taught, idea, patanjali

SPEAKERS

Jim Moore, Ariel Zachow

Jim Moore  00:15

Hello, my name is Jim, this is my podcast the bloody vegans. You're very welcome to it. Each week, I'll be travelling ever deeper into the world of veganism, discovering along the way a multitude of viewpoints from the political and ethical to the practical. I'll be doing this through a series of conversations, each aiming to further illuminate my understanding, and hopefully yours, of all things plant centric. And this week is no different. I'm going to be speaking with Ariel's Zakho, the host of compassion as my compass, which for those of you who don't know, is a yoga based podcast, based out of New York, although Ariel is incredibly well travelled. So many of her guests come from all over the globe. In this conversation, we're going to chat a little bit about yoga, and what Yoga is, and I can tell you now I learn an awful awful lot. And hopefully you will, too. So without further ado, here's a conversation between me and Ariel's Zakho.

Ariel Zachow  01:25

Well, it's kind of a couple of things. When I was about 14 years old, I had a heart thing and when you're so young, you don't really have heart problems. So I struggled to get somebody to take me seriously. Fast forward. Over the next about 10 years I went to multiple cardiologists I was on lots of different medication. I even had heart surgery at one point and I never got a diagnosis as to what the problem was none of the cardiologists I saw could agree on what it was and nobody at any point asked me what I was eating or what I was fueling my body with. And so I just started to experiment a little bit. I did some like health cleanse and you work to vegan during the cleanse after that I was like well I don't really need meat. So I went vegetarian for a while and I noticed that the heart problem got a lot better. And then when I went vegan, it's it's almost completely gone. And I was like alright, well great then so

02:31

was anyone leading it leading up to it was it look purely like trial and error, like your own research,

02:38

it was total trial and error, which is crazy to me. What you eat is so important. And here in the US at least it's not a secret that the pharmaceutical company and all the industry is really big. So I was pushed to do medication and to do surgery because that makes people money. going vegan doesn't make anybody money. So nobody asked nobody suggested suggested it. I've always been a big animal lover, but my parents taught me that being vegan was only for crazy people. And then I was like well I'm an adult I make this decision myself and it's really it just aligns with my morals and it and it makes me feel great so

03:25

it was your original sort of veganism when you've got sort of down that path a little bit was it would you say it was like a pretty healthy kind of diet and lifestyle or were you kind of it was more that you were feeling the health benefits of the abstaining from certain things rather than the adding in of a healthy diet

03:46

it was a little of both at the time I was newly a personal trainer so I was very focused on diet and previous to that I was eating what is widely considered you know, a clean diet chicken and tuna and eggs and things like that and, and I felt good then. But when I went vegan, it was just it's almost like you kind of wake up and you shed this this this sort of like heaviness on you and it just it felt right I felt so healthy. And even when I eat crappy vegan junk food, I still feel way better than when I was eating, you know, a quote unquote clean diet with chicken and all that.

04:27

You mentioned the family there, what was the sort of response that they kind of go with you seeing the health benefits that you were having?

04:36

They like many people would just stop me from talking about it. They're not a huge fan of hearing about it. And you know when you're innovating and you want everybody to to understand why it's so great and why it's so important. So you want to share with people and that never really worked for the people in my life. So I just kind of got a little more quiet about it and And they can make their jokes and make their comments and you know, I feel secure in the choices that I'm making. But I started to sort of lead by example, I wouldn't talk about it, I would just say, Hey, can we go to this restaurant? You know, they have a vegan menu or if instead of going to here, can we go here because I can eat this. And I was cooking a lot, and I was feeling good. And I would say that my, my heart thing went away. And now now they're a little curious. I'm about four or five years in and people are a little curious. So slow progress is happening.

05:32

And when did when did you sort of pass thoughts across with with yoga then like, was that was that sort of hand in hand, or were they kind of quite separate journeys.

05:43

Um, they did happen about the same time. So I was a personal trainer and group instructor for a while, after one of my group fitness classes, one of the students said, Hey, we should stretch more. And I was like, Alright, I'll get certified in yoga. And so the next day I started my yoga training. One of the main principles of yoga there, there are eight limbs of yoga. One section of the first limb is this idea called Ahimsa. And directly it translates to non violence. But in the yoga world, when you expand that a little bit, it's much broader. It's compassion and kindness towards all living creatures. And so we had talked before we started recording about you heard somebody speak and say, You can't be a yoga teacher and not be vegan. And I, I believe that I'm not, I'm not a loud activist. That's just not really my style. But I, I mean, it's super straightforward. It's compassion and kindness towards all living creatures. We know that farming practices and dairy practices are not kind and they're not compassionate. And you can't just I think you can't just pick and choose because it's easy. It's really very easy to be vegan. It's just being a good person. I don't think it's that hard. So as I was going through this yoga training, we came across this idea of Ahimsa. And I was like, Alright, that's it. Now I have a word for the feelings that I have about being vegan, and it's what I use as my moral compass.

07:16

I think there's a sort of parallel here I'd like to sort of pick up on that. When people talk about veganism, perhaps in sort of mainstream culture, they generally are referring to diet, and they're not really encompassing the lifestyle. And I think, you know, Yoga has become certainly the word and the, and perhaps some of the concepts have become super popular in mainstream culture. Do you think there's a sort of similar to the word veganism there's probably a widespread misconception that it is, Well, for one of a better phrase, a lot of posh stretching rather than a than a than a real holistic sort of lifestyle.

07:59

Yeah, I think there's a lot of while I'm, I'm very firm in my belief that if you're a true Yogi, you are a vegan, there's a lot of room for changing things to fit your life. There's nothing I think in this world, that's one size fits all. And to me, that's the same with either being a yoga teacher, yoga practitioner, or being a vegan in general, you don't, we don't live in a perfect world, you can't do everything. 100% you know, as we sit here, I try really, really hard to have only vegan things in my life. But I know a lot of ink is not vegan, this pen in my hand is probably not vegan, but that doesn't make me you know, a terrible vegan and things are so trendy, and people want to, for back lack of a better phrase, they want to catch you in your shed and say, you know, oh, you're not actually vegan, you're not doing that. Right? And it's like, well, but my, my main focus is, how does this apply to my morals? How can I apply it to my life? And how can I make it realistic and sustainable long term. And I always say that this is like the best time to be vegan, because it's super easy. There's vegan alternatives, everywhere. It's just not that hard information is available everywhere. If you're a yoga teacher, and you really actually care about what yoga truly is not this like westernised commercial version of it, then you're vegan, and it's really, it's so much easier than people think it is.

09:35

So, like when you when you got into this journey of yoga, and you'd kind of sort of really aligned with your, with your beliefs, like I take it the practice of yoga and getting to the level where, where you're at. You're an instructor and an incredibly capable one at that. Does. Does that take quite some time is that kind of quite a journey. In itself, I imagine it's not the sort of thing you can, you can do a six week course. And then you're kind of there.

10:07

Um, I think it depends on the person, there's no, the ultimate goal of yoga is enlightenment. And Yoga is 1000s and 1000s of years old. So it's what that means, in my opinion has shifted over time. It used to be that you had to sit in a forest with no food and no water and meditate for hours and hours and hours, and you sort of reach this higher mental state. That's not that's not realistic for anybody anymore. So the reason it's called start, this is a hard question, I have so many thoughts. The reason that it's called a yoga practice is because likely you never reach that state of enlightenment, there's not really like a finish line that you're trying to cross. So even with the relatively extensive training that I have, I very much consider myself still a student. And I will forever be a student because there's always new information to learn, I think that I got lucky in that the the principles of what Yoga is the eight limbs of yoga are very much in line with my moral values. So in a way, I was kind of living these these principles to begin with, and then I just found that they have a name, but that it's something already written and I'm like, great, I'll just follow this. But even still, I'm, I'm never going to have all of the knowledge I'm always going to be going after it. So some people learn much faster than others. Maybe this is, you know, a totally different way of thinking and doing for some people. So I think it's really kind of an individualised practice and learning journey. Yeah,

11:59

that makes perfect sense to me, and not being somebody who's, you know, ofay with it, it definitely sort of, like you say, the word practising yoga, like when you when you really get into the, the thought process of that, that's, that does make a lot more sense. Now you describe it like that. And when we sort of, you know, start to think about kind of activism and you talked a little bit earlier about, you know, not being or not considering yourself, like a particularly vocal activist, but yet you know, I, you know, I sort of see your activism as, as loud in its own way, you know, like a practising yoga yoga teacher, podcast host talking about about yoga, and therefore, all of its connections with veganism, etc. would you would you say your view of activism has, has kind of evolved through either the process of yoga or the process of the podcast.

13:01

Truthfully, I would say that it's shifted even over the last maybe month or so. We are struggling as a country here in the US. And there's a knot specifically about veganism right now a lot of it is, is racially driven. And there's a lot of talk right now about what the white community can do to help people of colour. And when I think activism, the first thing I think, is people protesting or rallying, or whatever, and, and so that was kind of forever My idea of what activism means it means, you know, going to the streets, holding signs, yelling and shouting. And I know some people are very good at that. And that's just not my thing. But as this country is shifting, and things are changing, there's a lot of talk about, there's a million different ways that you can be an activist and an ally. And I think that that's true with racism, with veganism, with sexism, whatever thing that you want to support, I think activism can be whatever you think it is. So even still, there's this sort of learned idea that activism is loud, and it's going to the streets, and it's being very public, but you can do it. I don't want to say more quietly, just differently. So over the past month, my view of what my activism is has changed. And it's for me, I don't know why, but it just feels better for me to call myself an ally. So I'm an ally for people of colour, I'm an ally for vegans and for animals and for living things. And it's you have to find your, your way that you're comfortable. And so mine is through my social media and simply leading by example. So it's different than then what I sort of was taught, I guess what activism is

15:01

Yeah I think like like you I'd definitely say my definition of of activism certainly has changed just as a result of perhaps people have spoken to people people like yourself like we were talking before we before we hit record about the likes of Sophia Ellis the power lifter over here in the UK you know, like I think you know, when I got started doing this I probably didn't imagine that that would be a form of activism but actually that's a world that isn't necessarily touched by veganism that often and so somebody's shining that example and really kind of does highlight the topic and I guess you know, like, like you say that that's why i would i would certainly describe you as an activist You know, when I think about the podcast and I think about your yoga teaching, etc. that presence like you say on social media, I think that's all that like you say that positive role modelling when you went into the podcast lead what was the inception of it, you know, what, what was your original intention has that shifted over the course of time with your, your kind of understanding of the yoga or indeed veganism or activism?

16:11

Definitely, I every weird step I've taken in my life has a big step brother I've taken in my life has started in a really weird way. Like, I'm a yoga teacher now like yoga is my life because one of my students like let's stretch more. And that's like, started a whole new career for me. The podcasting was the same way. I had taken an aerial yoga class you know, like the yoga swing the yoga silks and it was a teacher training the the guy who loved the the course was super great. A couple months after that course he had posted in our little Facebook group that he was hosting a how to start a podcast and I was like, well, I love this guy. Let me let me take this training and now now I have a podcast I, I think that it did start out as yoga It was like part yoga part travel cuz I'm a big traveller. And it's shifted from solo shows to strictly interview shows, we don't often talk about veganism, it's really a sort of the the little bits of yoga that anybody can bring into their daily life because Yoga is vast, and there's there's so much to it and so many different variations and so much that it has to offer the goal of my show is to show people that you can be just like a regular normal person and do yoga. And so that's that's sort of the focus now is to bring yoga into every singles purse every single person's life, because it's, it's so massive that there is something for everybody.

17:46

So for people, like myself, who, you know, probably have one understanding of yoga through, like you say, probably the westernised idea of yoga that they've seen in the in the studio on in their local gym, or that kind of thing. And then you know, I hear various kind of different terms of this type of yoga and that type of yoga, and I appreciate his super fast so if we need to be able to cover them all, but but what what are some of the key types and and where does it? Where did they kind of come from what's their kind of they will have different intentions, different premises? Like what what, tell us a little bit about that? Sure.

18:28

So it's the the western westernised version. And what most people think of when they think of yoga is is a yoga class, or a physical practice, and that's called an Asana. And Asana is one of the eight limbs of yoga, and it's kind of the easiest thing to teach to a group of people. So I think that one, you can make money off of it. I really like that. So that's where it's shifted when you come into yoga, and I haven't taken any outside of the US so my, my knowledge is a bit limited, but I do talk to all of my interviewees about what Yoga is like where they're from, and this is pretty true across the board, especially through Europe. It's all physical, and that's all people know. So if someone says they do yoga, they probably go to a, an Asana base class of physical class, but there's a lot more to it. Yoga as a whole is, is a moral compass. Essentially, it's how should you act in society? How should you act to yourself and how can you not fall into sort of the traps that are so present now being jealous hoarding, falling into social media, being concerned about what other people think about you like all of these things that just don't provide a good headspace is really what Yoga is. But with that there are different branches. Have it most, a couple of them have come from the early founders of yoga people that brought yoga to the US. So you have Hatha Yoga, Ashtanga Yoga, vinyasa are all different styles of a physical practice. You can also do something like Yin is a style, that's the style that I teach restorative, there's chair yoga, there's yoga first. Like there's, there's a way to change and to structure, a physical class that can cover everything. But it all comes from this idea of what Yoga is at its core. And one of the prominent people of early Yoga is Patanjali. And he's the one who sort of coined the eight limbs of yoga. There's a really great book, he wrote it super short. It's called the yoga sutras of Patanjali. I highly recommend it. It's just like, it's like, what do you do to be a good person? I guess, if I were to sum it up in a very short way, it's how do you be the best person to society and to yourself?

21:02

It's fascinating, because obviously, like, you know, the one I think of yoga, I think of a long stretching history in and sort of a crossover, perhaps with ancient religions, so on and so forth. And some of the things that you talk about there. Some of them humanistic sort of traits, just feel sort of, perhaps, what's the word like, almost like, there's a real microscope on some of those behaviours, there's a kind of, they're almost exaggerated in our modern world, you know, we think about like, things like Twitter and Instagram and stuff, you know, I almost feel sometimes, like we're not designed to know 1000 people, you know, we're, you know, we're designed to know, seven people or 30 people, or however many are in our town or village, you know. And so I wonder about whether our brains can cope with it almost. Absolutely. Do you? Do you think that that probably makes yoga more relevant? Does it does it still feel this is a big question, but does it still feel equipped? Do you think in your mind to handle that sort of hyper normalisation? If you like? Yes,

22:20

absolutely. It's, I think that as time goes on, and particularly as technology grows, it becomes more and more important. hear stories about and I'm like, I'm not old, I'm still a millennial. But I hear stories about you know, teenagers coming up and the way that they're so consumed by social media, and by essentially their their facade, what are they showing to other people? Are people liking their photos? How many followers do they have? And I'm not saying that none of that is important, because for you, and I, it's an important part of our business to have interaction with a lot of people that have a lot of followers. But it's ultimately, in my opinion, what are you doing to your mental health? And, sure, maybe we don't reach enlightenment, because nobody has time to go and sit in a forest. And you know, the world is expensive, and you've got bills, and mortgage and food and all of these things, but it's, what is the quality of your life? Are you able to pull yourself away from this world that's so focused on your exterior and deal with the things that are that are causing you mental, and sometimes physical pain? So the more people you know, the more consumed you become with technology and with how the world is turning. But ultimately, at the end of the day, what's most important is you and how do you feel? And if you feel terrible, you definitely need to go.

23:57

I think that's an incredibly good sort of sales pitch almost for for yoga in the model. I know, it's not necessarily intended like that, but but on that note, it just makes me think, you know, we've got an economy so, so driven by likes and clicks and, and followers, and so on. And I'm just thinking about, like, the life of the modern yoga teacher, like how they, how they balance that, you know, on their own, you know, you're in the best position, I guess, to answer that, you know, balancing the need to show what it is that you do, and showcase it. But how do you do that? When it's sort of, I guess there's a, there could be a sense of as you showcase it, it's, it's sort of not ever going to be what it is, you know what I mean, in fact, it's gonna be the opposite of what

24:53

that's um, that's a big thing for a lot of teachers because you want to be sharing this incredible knowledge, but you have bills to pay. So you want to charge what you're worth, which is often a lot of money. Not everybody can pay that. And then guilt kind of comes into it because you're asking for this money when technically all of this knowledge is like widely available for free. And it really can pose sort of like a back and forth. But then you can go a little deeper, and I have very strong feelings about yoga in America, like the average American yoga teacher is a fraud. I'm just gonna say. Because it's this, this is gonna sound really mean, but I'm just gonna say it anyway. Skinny, blonde, hyper flexible woman is what people think of when they think of yoga. That is a massive disservice to what yoga actually is. And I think it turns a lot of people away. So when, or I guess, as your, as a teacher, as you're trying to figure out, how can you morally make a career and make a living being a yoga teacher, the, for me, the most important thing is that I'm helping people to improve their lives. I'm not skinny, I'm not tall, and I'm not particularly flexible. So I try to show that I am fully immersed in this yoga world, while still living in modern times. It's not a perfect system. But there's, you have to sort of account for how times have changed over the past several 1000s of years, when it was created, there was no Twitter, there were no cell phones, there was no TVs, there was none of this stuff that we have to deal with now. And you can either decide, well, it was written for 1000s of years ago, and I'm going to change nothing. Or you can say, here's what it has to offer. Here's what the principles of it are, how can I bring these into my life and find a balance of how, you know having a foot sort of in two worlds and how heavily you want to lean to either side?

27:08

Yeah, I think that sounds like a pretty pragmatic and balanced approach.

27:14

Never Ending so there's no, yeah, there's no right answer, I guess.

27:18

I guess no, that's the thing. I mean, he if we were having this conversation even, I don't know, five years ago, I guess the reliance on social media and how competitive you know, I see like, like you say that, that sort of that image of, of what Yoga is, you know, you scroll through a feed and particularly like, now think about sort of the stuff that's fun all that you if you if you like certain vegan posts, you end up liking a lot of yoga posts and so on. And yeah, there is a there is a sort of definitely an image that is portrayed that is that does feel almost impenetrable, you know, to me to somebody like me almost is a bit scary, because it feels a bit hyper perfect. And, and I guess that is that social media in it, microcosm, right?

28:12

Absolutely. Yeah. It's, it's hard. Because if someone is tall and skinny, and blonde, and flexible, that's great. But if you're showing that that's where yoga exists, only, it's it's not fair. And like you said, it can be super intimidating. Even now, I've been teaching for several years, and I'm still trying to sort of get my footing as an entrepreneur with my own business. And there are a lot of times even though I know what Yoga is, and I know how to share it. There's still this this occasional doubt of why don't look like the poster girl for yoga. There are no poster people for yoga, because this is the westernised version of it. If you go to India, that's not who you're going to see. That's, that's not what yoga truly is at its core. But it is really hard sometimes to step back especially because, you know, if I posted a picture of a lake and I give a whole speech about how incredible it is to meditate here and I've changed my whole life and here are the limbs of yoga and how I apply them to myself and somebody right after me posts a picture of them, you know, holding a martini and doing warrior pose, they're going to get more likes because it looks cooler because that's what social media is. So it's this this forever Battle of, I guess finding comfort and knowing that you know what Yoga is and if you're unsure how it can fit into your life, you just haven't found the right teacher yet the right teacher is going to show you how you can bring yoga into your life in a way that's totally easy and very doable, but it's it's hard. It can definitely be hard because Instagram can be a bit nasty almost

29:58

it's it's cruel. Yeah. Talking about just picking up on a point there, you talked about, sort of, you know, what yoga would look like if you were travelling around India. And that being very different to over in, in the US, you've travelled pretty extensively, especially in the last quarter of year or so? And would you would you kind of say that you see, fairly, fairly large geographical swings in what yoga looks like, in those different territories.

30:33

I'm not quite so much I stayed predominantly in Europe for for most of my travels, India was on my list. And then we got a global pandemic. So that became a know really fast. It's, it's pretty much the same thing. I think the biggest difference that I noticed, and with talking with my guests as well, is how heavy a religion may be in a certain area. So I saw as I'm working to move, uproot my whole life and move to Greece, the I saw something on Facebook somewhere that said, the Greek Orthodox Church does not support yoga, and you cannot practice religion in Greece, and do yoga. And I was like, no. Yoga is not a religion. There is a lot of referral to God, but but it's your interpretation of what that word means. Generally, what it's talking about in yoga is yourself, you are God, essentially, for yourself. And that can cause a lot of conflict, depending on someone's religious standing. But it's not a religion. And the problem is that there's a lot of misunderstanding as to what it actually is, and where it falls with religion. The things that you do in yoga, you do in religion, they're just a little bit different. So one of the ways to meditate is with a drop of mala, and it's a beaded necklace, much like you would use a rosary, you hold the bead, say a thing, hold the next bead, say the next thing. And it's, it's like, that's an example of a lot of shared ideas. But I don't know, I so much of the problem with yoga is a misunderstanding, I guess, of what it actually is. So the biggest difference I noticed is how a certain area, how religion is integrated into their culture. And but you still have the tall, skinny, flexible people who are claiming that that's what you guys,

32:41

do you think that that? You know, the bit that you mentioned there about kind of how, for some people, particularly those who have, like, hold various religious beliefs, and then might feel like well, you know, it being a misconception, of course, but it might feel like to practice this kind of this version of yoga that they've they've seen that feels a bit too religious for them if like, do you think that sort of that notion feeds into? Well, let's sort of Westernise it and clean it up and turn it into sort of stretching so that it, it sort of avoids the the crux of it in case it contradicts our religious beliefs. Do you think there's kind of been what's the word sort of, like, washed by Christendom? If you like over? I've made that phrase out, but in the over in the States or in certainly in in sort of Europe, etc.

33:44

I think that anything's possible, I think more likely is that there was a potential for money to be made, and it got eaten by the beast. There's a really incredible documentary on Netflix and I don't know the name of it, but it's about Bikram, who is the founder of Bikram yoga. I think most people, when they think of yoga, maybe think of Bikram yoga. And it's simply a style that he claims he made up about on that. And I watched this interview recently, and excuse me, this documentary, and he's from India, came to the US whenever he did, and he turned it into this money making machine because it's the way that he structured his classes is very much a workout. And especially in California, that's where I'm from originally, people are hyper focused on what you look like and how hard you work for your body. To get was really 1/8 of what Yoga is. And even that is not pushing yourself to that extent doesn't really follow yoga principles. So big Grimm has started Bikram yoga, which is huge and popular and super trendy and makes a tonne of money. And sadly, here in the US, I can say it doesn't really matter what you do. If it makes you money, then you become important. So it's possible that it was changed to less than the potential religious affiliation. But I think it was more more money driven.

35:28

Sadly, right, well, either either is not good. But that particularly is sort of a sad indictment, isn't it? Yeah, just just moving on to the there's a bit that we talked about, you know, what the top layer where we were talking about, like how you integrated veganism into your life to combat kind of a health condition. And, and it struck me over a few interviews, and it's interesting hearing your experience sort of echo This, again, that the medical profession, and I think this extends beyond the US actually, as well, but I think he is probably very sharply in focus in the US is very much focused on treatment through medication and, and operations, etc, rather than, you know, preventative measures and, you know, probably more holistic approaches to wellness, etc. And just thinking, you know, like, we talked earlier about how, you know, the societal pressures of social media, etc, can have a real, you know, they can take a real toll on people's mental well being we're seeing, arguably more and more of that, as the as the sort of years years passed. And I just wonder, like your view on integrating things like yoga into, into sort of almost like preventative medical treatment, which might sound a bit, you know, I suppose, I suppose it sounds crazy to people just because it completely unused to it, but I see this, there's a massive hole for nutritional training, do you think there's probably more, there's a big space for something like yoga to enter into, you know, standardised medical training,

37:14

I think that it should be, it absolutely can and is used for preventative treatments. One of the other things, I'm working on a certification to be a yoga therapist, and that kind of runs along those lines. So when you have, maybe you're prone to diabetes, things like that are a little more tough, you know, it's not going to cure cancer would be great if it did. But you can look at things like the way that stress affects the body, and what such high levels of stress can do to a human body long term. And sure, you could go to your doctor and get some pills. And I'm not anti medication, I think that there are instances where it is absolutely necessary. But it shouldn't be the only option. So a lot of the people that I've had on my show, it seems like so many people struggle with anxiety and depression and find yoga as a means to manage that. Most of the people that I've interviewed in that instance, had tried medication, or were just really not a fan of it, and turned instead to meditation and pranayama, which is a breathing practice. And you can, can cure and really stop a lot of things in that way if your stress levels are through the roof. And if you need scientific backing, there's a lot of studies that have been done on this, but meditation and pranayama practice of breathing practice, and even a physical practice, will will literally lower your cortisol levels. And they they let your body heal, have several styles of yoga are designed to physically actually heal your body. And there's, you know, the mental healing that comes with that. So it's something that needs to be more regular and more accepted. And there was something I had read maybe a couple of years ago now. They they were trying to teach meditation in an elementary school somewhere. So two young kids, and a group of moms got together and stopped it because they thought it was a religious practice. But there's this idea that if you taught everyone at eight years old, how to meditate, the world would be essentially conflict free, because it allows you to just chill out for a second, take a step back and look at what the issues are and go forward more healthfully. I guess.

39:54

I think that's such an incredibly valid point. You know, think about the things with Talk in, in education, you know, moving away from the medical world then preventative, etc. But you're absolutely right that things were taught in our, in our sort of formative years. You know, occasionally there might be some nutritional training in school, but very, very rare and even then it's, you know, feels like it's fairly heavily subsidised by the animal agriculture industry, with food pyramids, etc. You know, and there's, there's very little certainly I can think about going my upbringing that talks about how to, how to cope with, you know, the stresses and strains of life, your emotions, etc. And something like meditation would be incredible, incredible thing to support that. So I think you're absolutely right, it should be part of our education.

40:49

And another thing that it teaches you is to really be aware of your body and to be very in tune with your body. And when, and I'm, my diet is not perfect, by any means. You, you start to know what feels good in your body and what doesn't. And if you are sitting with this is going to make meditation sounds super boring promises. But when you're sitting with yourself alone, quietly for however many minutes a day, you you just have this better awareness almost on like a cellular level. It was when I went being and that I no longer have heart issues. No doctor ever told me it was as simple as cutting animal products out of my diet and managing my stress. It's, you learn the skills to be totally in tune with yourself so that when something becomes just a little bit off, you're way more able to say, oh, here's an issue that starting Let me adjust it rather than getting to where it becomes a chronic problem where now you do need medical intervention to to fix it or to manage it.

41:57

Yeah, thank you. You're absolutely right. It feels like it's almost like a manual for your own body and mind. Like that, that needs to be part of our, of our education at some level that, you know, has already locked myself is perhaps certainly listening to your podcast, as as perhaps gotten over a little bit of that trepidation that maybe social media has instilled, instilled in me that fear of not wanting to get involved. Where would you Where would you recommend somebody goes about starting a journey into into yoga.

42:38

There are, I think, a million different places you can start based on what you want to accomplish. So I say if you're vegan now or if you're kind of like playing with the idea of veganism, maybe you're vegetarian, you can technically as far as I'm concerned, you can call yourself a yogi if you practice Ahimsa, non violence, compassion and kindness towards all living creatures. On some level, you are practising yoga, if you want to take it, you know, continue on that path of having a good set of morals, do a little bit of reading, there's there's a tonne of books out there. The light on Yoga is a great book. I'm reading that right now. The Yoga Sutras of Patanjali is really, really incredible. But there's also way more modern books as well. Do a quick search, I would say, if you're going to pick up a book that's more recent, I would do a little research on the person that wrote the book just to be sure that you're not getting somebody who's awesome Asana focus, somebody who's focused so much on the physical and not really all of the other parts of yoga. You can also go to an Asana class, I'm, I often come off as anti Asana, anti physical practice, because I'm just trying to stress how much more there is to yoga. Austin is really important, it's really important to move your body. You just have to know that likely in a physical class, you're not going to get all other parts to it, but it's a great workout or it's super relaxing, or it's really good for your muscles. If you're an athlete, yoga is very, very important. You can find if you want to Super mellow if you want to feel like you slept eight hours after a one hour class look for a restorative class. If you want to work out go to a vinyasa class. If you have an injury, whether it be physical or mental look for us, registered yoga therapist. They'll work with you one on one to give you a little more focused attention or download an app for meditation. I like the calm app is really incredible headspace is amazing. Or go to YouTube. There's a tonne you can even find. My favourite meditations are profanity heavy, so if you're not a big fan of like sitting quietly for 20 minutes a day, 10 minutes a day. Search. I think it's called this fucking meditation. It's like three minutes long, and you just feel incredible after. So there's really, whoever you are, whatever your life is, whatever your goals are, there's something for you. And if you are still super lost, you're listening to the show, send me a message. Now, I'll send you in a solid direction on where you should, where you should begin.

45:24

Out of curiosity, what on earth is profanity laden? meditation is amazing. I mean,

45:34

it's like, it's like a guided meditation. So a guided meditation is a good place to start. Because it's, it's literally somebody telling you what to do. So you're not just sitting there with your thoughts, which is not fun for most people. It's, it sort of walks you through how to breathe, how to change your focus, it just, it gives you a direction, essentially. But when you add like profanity, and there's like, my favourite line is let all the bullshit go, you know, ignore the fucking circus that your life is or I forget how it goes. But it's just, there's so much lightness to it, and there's a lot of laughter in it. And you really get all of the benefits of meditation, but you're not bored while you do it. And it's hilarious.

46:18

That's adds a bit of levity I think for for many people, they probably wouldn't associate meditation with that, that that sort of feeling?

46:27

Well, that's how how wide and how much variety Yoga has, I think there really isn't anybody who won't benefit from some part of yoga. And if you don't want to go like full hippie route, like I've taken to Google, the profane yoga guy, or whatever the heck that thing, you'll find that if you search on YouTube, you're gonna find 50 of them there. They're amazing. Highly recommend them.

46:53

Yeah, I think that the rules, the thing you've really sort of enlightened me about is this is that it's not just the, the sort of the physical practice. I think that that, that there is just another example you need to talk about. The profanity laden yoga and the levity of it, and so on. And just what the thought that just pops into my mind was like, it's kind of, you know, holistic of every component of the human experience absolutely covers every element. Would you say that it's probably fair to say is almost like a manual for how to live a great life?

47:30

Well, that is literally what the yoga sutras of Patanjali is, it's how do you live your best life. And if you need further detailing, then that book because the book is quite short, and it's super, super old, you can even branch into things like AI or VEDA is similar is similar practices. But if you find an Ayurvedic practitioner, they can tell you exactly what he ate based on your dosha. So people fall into one of three doses. And personally, I don't know how much I support this, but I haven't done a tonne of research, there are people who swear by it, but it's essentially you know, your you are more hot, or you run more cold or you run a little more neutral. And based on that these are the certain foods that you should eat. It is not however, vegan focused. So it may suggest that you eat chicken or eggs or cheese or whatever. I do not support that part of it. But I do support people experimenting on their way I don't think that you need to listen to a show about yoga and then tomorrow decide to be a vegan, you can take your time to get there, if that's what you need. But there is solid direction there's there's moral direction, there's physical direction, there's nutritional direction. But you can also pick and choose I think as long as you're following sort of the moral code of what Yoga is, everything else is really allowed to be adjusted to fit your life so you can follow it to a tee or you can get the ideas and and kind of say Well, here's the principle let me sort of adjust this so it fits my life as it is right now.

49:15

Awesome. Awesome. I'd love to pick up a little point here it just sort of popped into my mind from something we were talking about slightly earlier just about the current situation we're in Utah in you talking about kind of, you know, people kind of sitting with themselves if you like and feet and and spending that moment, you know, the, I guess the kind of the core fundamental principle of, of meditation. And I'm just thinking to this kind of the pandemic that we're kind of still very much in in certain parts of the world. And the lockdown experience for many appreciate the lockdown experience for is many and varied. You know In terms of some people, there's, you know, tragic job loss, loss of family members, all kinds of all kinds of things. And for others, it may have actually just been a time to pause and reset and reflect as a yoga print practitioner. And, and you know, I'm not entirely sure exactly how far out of out of out of lockdown were you are is but have you noticed people kind of have used that time to turn towards maybe some of the principles of of yoga? Are you? Are you getting more contact as a result? Or would you say it hasn't really had that impact just yet?

50:41

Yes, and no, it's been locked down. For me, it's been a little crazy, I did a cross country move. And I had just come back from six months of travel out of the country. So for my business, at least, I didn't sit down and try to pull in more clients. But a lot of teachers have been forced to move online to keep their classes going. So with this, free classes are widely available. What's happening in those classes in terms of what people are being taught about yoga, I'm not super sure I actually taught a class today, I had a new client who lasted four minutes before he left. And it's because I teach my classes differently. I teach what I believe to be more true to yoga. Some people aren't, I'm perceptive to that they don't want that they still want the super physical heavy practice. I think if if anybody had anticipated this would have been as crazy as it's been. Had there been a little more information available about the benefits of meditation in such a stressful time. I think it would have been easier for a lot of people. I I haven't noticed necessarily that the masses have turned to to mental health through meditation. Because it's hard, even as a teacher, I get so overwhelmed. And then I realise I've wasted a whole day just worrying when I should have just sat down and meditated for 10 minutes. So it's the opportunity was there but I don't know that the knowledge with the positive backing that it needed was available at the time it should have been, if that answers your question.

52:31

Yeah, totally. And I suppose Let's face it, neither of our respective governments were going to give that kind of advice. Sadly, nowhere near that kind of that kind of thought process or any sort of federal Prime Ministerial in our case level. Sadly, I've got one final question I suppose on that that kind of note and love to get your view on it. And I've asked lots of people this but your thoughts on the sort of eventual kind of transition or our aspiration of getting to a, whatever a vegan world would look like? And I will always caveat that with you know, there are our version of the world is probably quite a closeted in a bubble years probably less so because much more well travelled than me, but how confident Do you feel in that transition?

53:27

That's tough. I think it depends. My opinion changes based on the day and how good of a day it's been. I I noticed when I was travelling, it's veganism is quite prominent. It's much more prominent than you would think. And when I tell people I'm moving to Greece they become horrified because how are you going to eat you're going to starve and now it's acids is one of the most vegan friendly places I've been um, there was nowhere that I went that I couldn't eat and it's just I think slowly becoming more mainstream, but maybe a little less trendy so it's not such a fad diet anymore. It's It's It's pretty regular. And I went to Oh, you know, where I could not eat was Manila. I do not recommend vanilla Manila. It's not vegan friendly. But everywhere else was really great. And you immediately have a community wherever you go as a vegan and that was very comforting to me. I think that people are stubborn. And the way that my country has been the past month or so. Unfortunately, I've lost a lot of hope for there to be a peaceful world. So maybe now is not a good time to ask me this because everything here is so heavy and so sad. It's hard sometimes to say, you know that we'll get to a place where the world is full of acceptance, and no one no living thing as being hurt. I think in our lifetime, we'll see a heavier uptick in it, and it will become more and more prominent. And I want to say that we live in a world where we could one day become vegan, but now it's hard. Now you see how many bad people there are? So I don't know, I think we should send all of the bad people to space and leave all the good people. And then yes, we could have a whole world that is I don't know, it depends. I think a month ago, I would have said, Yes, it's possible now. Now, maybe not so much. But growing at the very least i was i was happy to see so much of it as I travelled. So it is, and it exists in places you wouldn't expect to I like the Middle East was great vegan food. Everywhere was amazing. So progress, definitely that I can say for sure.

56:07

I know I think about it. And you mentioned a couple of couple of countries there. I think I do have one final question actually. On top of my final question, which, which, which is Yeah, on your experience, like where Where's been the most vegan friendly place that you that you've visited either city country? town, where would you say you have the best offering?

56:31

That's tough. So many places were so good. Athens is great. It's a little 5050 because for Easter, they do roast lamb in the streets just all over the place. So that's not super great. But there are many dedicated vegan restaurants there which is great. London was also really wonderful. Amsterdam was Oh, I love Amsterdam The food was amazing. San Francisco is also a great New York is also great. Manila was not and there's one single vegan place in Istanbul if I had to pick if you had to go to one place probably you'll have the best luck in Amsterdam.

57:19

Nice choice.

57:21

Yeah, everywhere. I mean, everywhere you just Google it. There's vegan restaurants everywhere. You're gonna eat like yes, vegetables are available everywhere you're gonna be fine.

57:32

Awesome. Well listen, thanks thanks. I really appreciate your your time tonight it's been lovely chatting to you. And I'm not sure we've mentioned it enough. So do check out aerials podcast compassion as my compass which is really recommended available all over the place right?

57:53

Where iTunes Spotify radio calm.

57:57

Awesome. Definitely worth checking out. And there's some fascinating subjects there to dig into. So do have a listen and do all the reviewing and stuff too. I know from personal experience, that sort of stuff helps. So make sure you not only listened to Aaron's podcast, but you review it on iTunes as

58:18

well thank you so much for having me on. This was so much information. It's hard to kind of scale it down. But I'm hoping that that maybe people have a better idea of what yoga actually is not some weird hippie thing. It can be if that's what you want. It could definitely be that but it doesn't have to be

58:36

well I certainly do I certainly feel educated and Okay, I think that and your your podcast and some of those book recommendations, and I feel like I'll be well on the way so

58:47

now that one YouTube video of profane meditation will not get over. Watch it. That's gonna get washed straight away. Thank you. Thank you so much. I really appreciate it.