Charlotte Elizabeth

Jim Moore 0:16

Hello, my name is Jim, this is my podcast the bloody vegans, you're very welcome to it. Each week I'll be travelling ever deeper into the world of veganism, discovering along the way a multitude of viewpoints from the political and ethical to the practical. I'll be doing this for a series of conversations, each aiming to further illuminate my understanding, and hopefully yours, of all things plant centric. And this week is no different. This week, episode 100, and something odd. I'm going to be chatting with Sharla Elizabeth, she's the CMO and co founder of the vegan friend finding and dating app, grazer, so kind of think, bit Tinder kind of thing, but for exclusively a vegetarian and vegan market are a fantastic idea. As we get into in the conversation, you'll find out there's there's more to it than just dating, you know, I put friend friend finder up the front there, because actually, people are using it just naturally this organically almost happened that people are using it, to find friendship groups and find community as much as they are find a potential partner and so on. So it's incredible idea, fascinating individuals, Charlotte. So we look forward to that conversation, but a little bit of admin just before we get there. First of all, for the keynote, Apple podcast users amongst you, you will know that you can now subscribe to the podcast for a small monthly fee, which helps keep the lights on that bloody vegans towers. And that will allow you early access to episodes. There'll be bonus episodes along the way things like that some exclusive content that also, like I say fundamentally helps support the podcast. So if you are that way inclined and when wish to support the podcast and then please please do. Other piece of admin, the green gazelles rugby club, the world's first vegan rugby club are playing a competitive fifteens game. For those of you don't know what 15 Isn't rugby, it's kind of like the rugby see. Maybe national teams playing in the World Cup and so on so forth is 15 refers to 15 players as opposed to sevens which is in place. So there'll be a 15th game at Rosslyn Park, which is towards the south of England, west of London, I believe Rosslyn Park the team, which is also the name of the stadium will be playing it is a non vegan team. So it's going to be a vegan team versus non vegan team. But the event is fully vegan so they can food, vegan beer, vegan wines, music, what you name it entertainment, everything provided by small vegan businesses in the local area. So exciting stuff November the 27th. You can get your tickets on green gazelles rugby club.com, that's green gazelles rugby club.com. Anyway, let's get back to grazer. So without further ado, here's a conversation between me and Charlotte Elizabeth.

So shall it be awesome to get started with a little bit of your personal journey into the world of veganism what kind of brought you here.

Charlotte Elizabeth 3:38

So my journey into veganism was very gradual. So I've been fully vegan for coming up to six months now. And then I was plant based for about five years before that kind of on and off plant based. And then I was veggie turn veggie about seven years ago. So when I first went veggie it was because I was going on a trip in my sixth form, we were going to India, there wasn't going to be like meat where we were going there wasn't going to be any meat eating. So a couple of hours gave it up beforehand just to get used to it. And then when I got back, I just never started eating meat again. I didn't see a point I didn't miss it. And also I just I didn't really eat that much meat anyway, like growing up. I was always exposed to vegetarianism. And my mom was veggie back in the day like in the 90s. She was veggie when she's pregnant with me she had corn at her wedding back then, which I think is really cool. Like I only just recently found that out. And she's vegan. She's vegan now as well actually. But So vegetarianism was always kind of there growing up. And like when I was in my early teens, a couple of things happened like with chicken that really sort of like started to ring alarm bells for me. So I got food poisoning I went out to a chicken restaurant a well known chicken restaurant with my friends. And the next day I was like a violently ill I was the only one who was ill. And I just remember thinking like, oh, that's nasty. Like, I don't know how much I want to do with this anymore. And around the same time I also cooked chicken like for the first time myself and I remember like watching it in the pan go from like, this pink raw flesh to just like cook chicken. And thinking like suddenly in that moment making this connection of like, oh my god, like, that's what I've been eating this whole time. That's what chicken is. Is this roar pink flesh like it is this body. And just because it doesn't look like that on my plate doesn't mean it's not that and so I didn't eat chicken like for years after that, like it proper proper. Put me off it. And that kind of started me making like connections with like, what meat is basically. So yeah, I was exposed to like vegetarianism, a little bit less meat growing up. And then I first heard about like veganism. About five years ago from my sister, she got really into it. And she was telling me about it. And I thought, yeah, I've got to get involved in this. This sounds great. And basically, where she started a full fledge vegan lifestyle that she's still keeps up to this day. I went plant based, and I kind of went around it in this really like, bad way. And I did it all wrong. And like, basically, when I first went plant based, I just I lost loads of weight, not on purpose, but like it just happened from it. And I became really focused on that. And I kind of lost sight of all the other reasons that I should be doing it. So I had this really unhealthy relationship with it. And also around the same time when I was trying to go plant base and do it properly. I was dating a farmer, I was in a relationship with a farmer. And like a couple of things happen there that just really like just really made me think this isn't right. Things like you know, casually talking about sending the lambs off to slaughter on like a Sunday afternoon like it's nothing. And he took me to a cow auction once like I didn't really know what I was going to I just like going out with him for the day we went to this cow auction, I just like I cried afterwards, it was so distressing to see that and he just never really understood it. But so that was like quite a stressful time trying to like go plant based and having a bad relationship with it. And like with being plant based, and then in a relationship with a farmer, like it was a very confusing time. But anyway, fast forward to like last year in lockdown.

I, you know, started really trying to like go fully vegan again. So I was living with my sister in Manchester, we had a flat together. So I was like fully around like a vegan all the time in lockdown. And I also joined a feminist slash human rights cause called our streets now, you can check them out on Instagram. So it's like the campaign to end public street harassment. So I was getting really involved in like, veganism again and feminism. And then I was reading around like eco feminism and environmental racism, environmental inequalities, and just got really down that route again, and finally took the step up to, you know, say, I'm going to be vegan and I'm not going to fall off the waggon again, and you know, I need to do this. So very gradual journey. But I got there in the end. Basically,

Jim Moore 9:20

there's so much in there. What a fascinating story. I don't think I've heard many people talk about, you know, dating farmers and going plant based and, and even though the losing the losing weight pieces is really interesting as well. You know, when you say that you you feel like you didn't do a good job going plant based, was that you know, just from a I mean, you were vegetarian for some time. So I guess you had that fairly like locked down, you understood what it was that you needed to eat and so on and so forth. Was there a kind of a lack of perhaps educated For yourself around. Now, when you take out dairy what the just the purely the calorie intake was of the dairy that you were ingesting, and therefore, it was just a reduction of calories. Simple as that, or was there more to it?

Charlotte Elizabeth 10:13

Yeah, I think I mean, I think I just lost weight just naturally for not, you know, putting dairy into my body. But I think it was also this thing of I was used, I was used to the meat, like you said, I was used to not eating meat, I knew what that was, I knew how to eat like that. But suddenly, you know, cutting something out. And kind of not like I said, I lost sight of why I should be doing it. So I don't really read into to like nutrition and things like that. And I'd say not that you needed to you don't need to be like an expert on nutrition to go vegan to go go plant base. But I think like, I just wasn't making, I wasn't making the effort at all. And it kind of just came became this, like I don't want to say self serving, but I was just like, oh yeah, I've lost the weight of it like, and that's all I was focusing on rather than rather than why I was doing it. And that's what I lost sight of like, I don't know, if you remember how toxic like 2016 foodie weight loss YouTube could be. But I unfortunately got really wrapped up in that. And it just so happened to coincide with going plant based. So it wasn't necessarily that but it was those two things coming together that made me have a really bad relationship with it. And I think, yeah, it wasn't, you know, going plant based in cause it was kind of just like this mix of loads of stuff going on that I sort of just coincided with. Yeah, it's definitely a lack of like, a lack of effort to like really make a plant based lifestyle. Yeah.

Jim Moore 12:03

So it's sort of almost felt like, veganism became more or less plant based diets at the time became the scapegoat for how you were feeling about this, this kind of relationship, like you say, with YouTubers, and so on. So it was diet culture. And then based diet became the scapegoat for it's like it was that is that that was the problem.

Charlotte Elizabeth 12:26

Yeah, I would never say, uh, yeah, I would never say like, oh, it was a bad thing. Like, it made me like, go mental or whatever. But I think I just had like a real lack of awareness around it, or it was almost like just a shock to the system. Like, even though we're so used to cutting out meat, it was just a shock to the system of me of like, suddenly having this control over what I was eating. And then I really got into the control side of things. And like, chess, yeah, went down a rabbit hole, like, they could have been cutting anything out, you know, I mean, I could have suddenly cut out like, through and I would have, I would have still had that same bad relationship with food. But that was very, you know, it was very fleeting. It was very, it didn't last long that that bad relationship with it. And, you know, I've, I've grown from that. And now I know, like, how to do it healthily, properly, how to have a good relationship with. And yeah, things like that, basically. And I think one thing that really helps, is knowing, like what I said to myself was like, that should never have been an option in the first place. Like, yes, I'm cutting. I'm cutting out food. I'm cutting out cheese. But I'm not because it should never have been an option in the first place for me to cut out so I'm not cutting it out. I'm just choosing to basically eat a food I should have been eating fastbase. But yeah, I think it's it can be complicated for for people who like stress over food and stress over, things like that, for sure. But what, like I say, what, what helped me was that dairy isn't a food. You know, I had to tell myself that is not food. It's like I've cut soil out of my diet. Like it shouldn't have been in your diet in the first place. So I had to like tell myself anyway,

Jim Moore 14:26

that's such a fantastic way of putting it I think, actually is to think about it like that is it's not it's not a food source. It's it's the secretions of of a living being it was never designed to be food. Yeah, exactly. Nor the body parts of a living breathing. So yeah, it's a great way to put it. Not depriving yourself is just stopping.

Charlotte Elizabeth 14:48

Yeah, exactly. Because I think as soon as it's like anything as soon as you tell yourself, you can't have something like you kind of want it more you kind of had you've developed something quite like toxic in your head. So you have to completely rethink it to think, like, it's not that I can't have it, it's that X Y, Zed or you know, something like that.

Jim Moore 15:10

Yeah, it's definitely a great, great perspective on it. Now, with the benefit of hindsight, you mentioned, you know, this was a relatively fleeting moment. Thankfully, you've come back through through the other side, and you've ended up kind of in the in in the kind of place you are now where you're much more of an ethical vegan, as opposed to somebody who is following a plant based diet. Do you think there is looking back there is a danger in sort of modern social media vegan, quote, unquote, vegan plant based diet culture, that we could send people who are transitioning who are new to the, to the world of it down some of these rabbit holes? If if, if people's intentions when they're creating these channels, and the pages and so on? If their intentions aren't good? They could lead people actually away from veganism and the ultimate kind of destination you're at? Or do you? Do you think it's not quite as sort of simplistic as that?

Charlotte Elizabeth 16:15

I think is so subjective, like it really depends on the sort of person, you are really, I think, you know, going plant based or any, any switch up in your diet, you need to fully understand why you're doing it, that the impact on everything else, not just you. And remind yourself of that, and also know how to handle changes within yourself. And how to, you know, depends, I mean, I've seen it like, I've seen it send people down rabbit holes, like in the past, I think it's very different. Now, I think social media, like it's so much more political in like a positive way we get so much from it. We can't we kind of are moving away from like, toxic things like that, or things with like an ulterior, ulterior motive. I think anything could send anyone down a rabbit hole at any time. So it's all about you, and how you help yourself have a relationship with certain things. And, you know, your mental health is, you know, should be a priority at all times. But sometimes, that's, you know, that's so much harder to do than said, so I think it's all about self talk. And how you have a relationship with those changes, and knowing that something like veganism is, yes, it is a change to you. But it's not about you, you know, it's about everything else, and realising that.

Jim Moore 18:04

Yeah, that's a sort of great, great perspective on it really, like there's, there's good and bad in everything, I think it's, you know, not probably guilty of this myself, sometimes thinking of social media or modern culture, different newer forms of media. And I guess it's like, you know, as you're getting too old, and you feel disconnected from the, sort of the modern world, you start to blame it for some of society's ills and, and start to think of it as, as negative the whole time when actually, you could argue the same sort of stimuli existed before, you know, good, they were good and bad, and so on, so forth. They have their own plan. Yes. And it's just new platforms, and is how you personally choose to, to navigate your way through those

Charlotte Elizabeth 18:52

Exactly, exactly, there's always gonna be that external stimuli in life that you know, is gonna has the potential to upset you or has the potential to you know, crumble your mental health, but that's why it's always it's always about how you handle it, like, what's happening on the outside is versus how you interpret that. And how you tell a story to yourself is, you know, how you can get through things and how you can manage things like going vegan, if you're someone who is prone to having like, stress around food, or, you know, you've had a little, like eating disorders in the past or something like, but then I know, like quite a few people who have had eating disorders in the past, and they'll go vegan as a way of recovering as well. So it's, it's because it really helps them you know, feel like they have meaning and feel like there's purpose in what they're doing. So it's really just, you know, it depends on who you are as a person. Yeah, such

Jim Moore 19:54

a great shout. You know, we can often focus on the negatives but you know, as you said that my mom And instantly went to a former guest actually called SAFFiR Ellis who's a world champion power lifter now, but as well documented and been very open about the challenges that she had from an eating disorder perspective and, you know, triggered by some of the tragedies in her in her younger life and so right. And, and veganism was actually a, an incredible incredible support to her really, and helped her move move through that to the place where she's, she's at now, where she's not only physically, obviously, you know, she World Champion power lifters physically very strong, but, but I think mentally is in in is in a very different place to and this becomes, you know, for me just a real source of inspiration of, you know, what, what the human mind can can overcome and how people can Yeah, can, can can thrive through through adversity. So yeah, I think I think is sort of spot on. It's easy to make like that, you know, modern culture is the the big evil.

Charlotte Elizabeth 21:05

But I think on online as well, like, it's, it's the same thing is you create you curate your own feed, you choose who you follow online, if you want to follow someone toxic, that's your choice. And that's what you're doing to yourself, right? There's self harm in a way. But that's why you choose to follow people who are really positive about things or are involved in politics or ideas that you really care about, and the influences that really speak to you and help you through things rather than spread like you know, things that are going to make you feel rubbish, like there's this fitness influencer, because people think Instagram fitness, you know, it's kind of that old stereotype of, oh, it's just full of, you know, bodies that are going to make you feel bad about your body or something like that's quite like the stereotypical Instagram so toxic for that, but it's not. It's how about you interpret, like, yeah, there's loads of though there's loads of people posing in whatever ways on Instagram, but if you're going to be triggered by that, you're going to be triggered by that by someone walking down the street, like social media has got nothing to do with it. That's about how you feel as a person. And that's why you have to follow people online. Like, there's this there's this girl called Lucy mountain who has like a no bullshit. Yeah, so her fitness is no bullshit fitness, basically. And it's not about it's not about losing weight, it's not about necessarily pushing yourself, it's just about enjoying moving and what that means to you. So and you know, she talks about food, and how there's all this rubbish around what you should eat, what you shouldn't eat, that sort of thing. So social media is just real life, but more condensed. If you're choosing to consume unhelpful things, then that's your choice. But you can lift yourself out of that and choose to consume stuff that's going to help you as a person and help the world. And

Jim Moore 23:20

on that note, I'd love to get your perspective on something is sort of popped into my head as a thought. And as I'm, as I'm describing it, I will try and turn it into a articulate question. So forgive me in advance, for feeling my way through this thought. So I'm sort of, I'm thinking out loud here. But as somebody who perhaps didn't grow up with social media, social media came came along much later, like, I was pretty much through uni. I think 2006 was the last year of union was when Facebook was kind of like it was it was people starting to say, oh, there's this thing called Facebook, you should get on it. And I was like, now you don't need to do that. And then I ended up getting on it to organise a football team that I was involved in and then years later I was on it and now I'm not on it at all. Facebook specifically, but like it but but still, it I didn't grow up with it. It wasn't it didn't exist. That was the that was the point. Think MySpace just to date me MySpace was kind of a thing and then that just sort of disappeared. But I would say I I'm not. I wasn't a digital native, if you like, or at least a social media native, I didn't grow up with understanding the language understanding that you would need to, you know, that might sound obvious, but how to curate your experience on these things. And so I find myself even now, going going down to the point we're just talking about going down rabbit holes responding to clickbait. I'm not necessarily like responding in terms of comments, but you know, like, reacting to it in terms of being angered by something I see. And then you see more of it, and so on and so forth. And, and and it seems to be all you notice, and it leaves you with a negative feeling. And the way you describe that there is, you know, sounds sounds, almost the, if not the opposite experience, somebody who's much more savvy, sure, put it that way. Somebody who's, who's figured out who's figured out what it is, sees it for what it is and understands how to curate their experience. Do you think that that is just the the march of time people will people are becoming more savvy? Or do you think that is something that still actively needs to be almost taught to to younger generations of how to how to live in this world? If that's if that's, that's a sense. Question. That makes sense.

Charlotte Elizabeth 26:05

Yeah, no, I know, you mean, I think it's something everyone constantly have to remind, constantly has to remind themselves of, like, you can be taught it once and still fall off a little bit, or still have like, a really low day and go and look at maybe some like accounts that you used to follow or, you know, look at something that isn't going to make you feel good, and you just kind of fall off it. I think it's something we all have to teach ourselves constantly as we go, I think, especially younger people, they're so like, technically, like technology is kind of so like, ingrained into them. Like it's such an extension of them. Rather than just this separate thing, like there was this, I can't remember who said it, but I heard someone say once, like, people used to go on the internet to escape real life. And now people go into real life to escape the internet. It's really, it's really flipped. And so I think especially like, people are on their phones, like 12 hours a day. I mean, sometimes that's necessary, because of just the days you have right, like for work. But you know, if you're just aimlessly scrolling, but it's making you feel rubbish, like, you need to constantly remind yourself, you know, what am I achieving? Is this making me feel bad about myself? Has this actually being productive? I think it's something we all have to constantly, constantly think about. And another thing about being online, though, like you said, seeing content that makes you feel uncomfortable or horrible. Can actually I guess, incite action, like, think about veganism online, right. And social media. It's so it's so important for veganism, because we're literally talking amongst ourselves and spreading the word and meeting people and seeing content like if I'm not going to go to a slaughterhouse I've never walked casually walk past a slaughterhouse and thought, Oh, what's that? Oh, that's that's how we get meat on the tables. Right? But because of that footage online as uncomfortable and gory and haunting as it is, so many people out there turned vegan because of it, you know, so it's, it's treading that fine line of we have to almost spread things like that in a way to really get the message through. But also, it's so nasty and so horrible. Like, do we need to do we need to spread that. So sometimes, seeing things and making you feel horrible, that's all it does. And sometimes you see things it makes horrible, but it incites action and it incites sight something better, like like veganism. And it's also made social media so good for making veganism like accessible and realistic, I think you can see how to be vegan in so many different ways you can see how to cook a cheap, quick meal that you might not ever have, you know, thought of yourself or struggled to do previously. So I think it makes it more accessible to more people especially like, you know, in the UK or America or something.

Jim Moore 29:32

Yeah. I think you make a really compelling argument for there being lots of lots of real positives to come out of it, particularly when you think about it from a, you know, an activism standpoint and you know, how to bring people along with a message. And you're absolutely right, think about all kinds of different aspects of intersectionality that I wouldn't have come across. If it weren't for that particular outlet. You know, the outlets Social media weren't for creative folks on they're spreading messages in different ways. Not to say they all resonate with me, but some, but some do. And when they do that does tend to instil action, although I, I do sometimes sort of try and carry out this in my, in my mind with like, Yes, I, it shapes the way I think. But does it change what I do in the real world? If you see what I mean, like, yes, veganism is a great example where we're actively does, but I sometimes worry that we like, share, whatever, and feel like we've done our our bit for a cause, you know, I mean, yeah, I don't know, if you if you sort of share that sentiment, but sometimes, you pop something in your story, and you think, Well, I've, that's my bit done for today. And, yeah, sometimes, is that actually valuable? You know, maybe it is, maybe someone's seen it, and it's triggered something in them. But I sometimes can't help but thinking, but think if I got involved in something grassroots local, that had an impact, you know, whether it be, you know, some kind of outreach or you know, something in that way, would that actually be more effective, but I think you can argue the toss both ways or the other. I don't know I've ever come down in the right place on what's good and what's bad.

Charlotte Elizabeth 31:26

I think it's so it's so hard, you never want to do the wrong thing. You never want to be unhelpful. You want to make sure you are making a difference. I think there is a difference, though, and, you know, some people will, will post things and think, you know, just do it out of a place of performative action like, like the Black Lives Matter movement last year, and the black squares, that was a massive example. And a huge conversation was around that of, you know, you wanted to do it to show support, but you also, a lot of people were doing it just as the only thing they did, right. And I think a lot of people didn't know how to navigate that. And it really started a conversation about like performative. Activism. And are you actually involved in what you're talking about? Are you reading about things? Are you signing petitions? Are you getting out? Are you speaking to people, you know? So I think is, I think you have to reflect what you believe in, in the real world. As much as possible. But social media is also a great tool for spreading that word. You know, like, think about how many things you wouldn't have heard of, if you unless it was for social media. So it's, it's totally about having having a balance, I think, but making sure that you do, you do take action. In the real world,

Jim Moore 32:59

thinking about thinking of Allah do want to, I don't want to get into grazer at some point. So forgive my forgive my talking about all kinds of different subjects. But but it's fascinating to get your insights beat to be honest, thinking about your journey into veganism was really just sort of talked about, and you know, the influence of others social media, friends, obviously, I'd imagine that somewhere in in the, the formation of, of Grazer and the idea that came up there. I'd imagine dating a farmer, at some point, probably had some, some seeds were sown back then. But how it how sort of pivotal was your experience in that in coming up with with the app and wanting to run a business like razor? And for folks who don't know, we should probably tell people what it is as well. Let's do that.

Charlotte Elizabeth 34:01

Okay, yeah, so, razor is a dating and friend finding up for vegans and vegetarians. So we're all about plant based connections, connecting people across the globe, connecting people who want to, you know, meet people like them, date people, like minded people with the same lifestyle and really also solve a kind of loneliness and isolation issue that can surround veganism. Sometimes, you know, we exist to support the community and the idea that that we love. So, Louis Foster, my co founder, the original founder, so he's been vegan 10 years so he really experienced vegan isolation. Back then, like, you know, 10 years isn't that long relatively in time and space, but like the veganism that starts so long. And back then so many less, fewer people were doing it. So he really experienced isolation. And I think that's a huge part of some people's vegan journeys is that initial realisation of, there's quite a few things, oh, I can't do that I can't do that, or, you know, meals can be such a bonding, cultural thing, it can really sort of make people's identities of who they are. And you know, you can certainly be left out of something that you were so involved in before. And so he had had the idea a few years back, to make grazer, basically to solve this issue. And then I came on board earlier this year, to really sort of, you know, getting things going, basically. But yeah, so it was really an opportunity for me to take a leap and a step up and really work with something I fully believe in and align with as well. So, you know, great people are reaching out to us all the time with stories, you know, we've had friendship groups come up to us at events tell us they met on Grazer and we've had relationships marriages, babies. So yeah, finally little Graser. Enterprise going on? Yeah.

Jim Moore 36:38

That's, it's pretty incredible, amazing, amazing kind of concept. And, like it was, you know, from your personal experience. Did you know if you think back, and then probably, you know, like I say, dating thing a farm or being vegetarian getting to where you are now, right? Yeah, you know, would would a resource like grazer became invaluable? You know, if you, if you think about, you know, would you have ever been vegan, dated somebody who had such a polar opposite viewpoint you'd have, you'd have? I guess you probably wouldn't. But

Charlotte Elizabeth 37:14

no, it was the relationship I was in at the time with the farmer, it was a massive issue. Like it was part of the reason that like, you know, I can I can do any more because it was this massive polarising thing it wasn't, you know, that was when I really realised this isn't just a diet, this isn't just a plant based diet. This is like a full system of beliefs that really impact your day to day decisions and how you feel about life and beings in the earth. So that's why, you know, since I first met Louis, that's, I, I fully understood it. As soon as I found out about Grazer and what he was doing, I got it. So I wanted to come on board, because I've been in those situations where it's such it's such a point of friction in a relationship. And I think it depends on the other person because I've you know, you can be in a relationship like I was previous enter in with someone who wasn't vegan, but a vegan 95% of the time, just because the people who was around and I think, but he was, you know, a carnivore, like, he he ate meat and omnivore or whatever you want to call it. So I think, you know, I can handle, I think I can handle things like that, it really depends. But it, it's where it's a complete lack of willingness to even understand why the other person believes what they believe on is trying to do what they're trying to do. And that's when it can really cause friction, obviously, that's different for different people, like you said, about so some people definitely would never even consider dating someone who wasn't vegan. Right. So it depends on depends on who you are and what you want. But I think for me, it's just a lack of willingness to even try and understand why you're vegan.

Jim Moore 39:18

Yeah, I mean, I think if I, if I was, you know, we talked about before, before recording it, you know, sort of fortunate enough, I guess, to have met my, my partner prior to sort of online dating apps and so on being a thing, so as long as the physical meeting and so on, so forth. But if if I was ever in that situation, you know, again, where I was, perhaps looking for a partner and actually even just looking for friends, yeah, if I think back up the first year of being vegan, and part of the reason actually I started this podcast and maybe it's not practical for everybody to start podcasts, but was was because I didn't know anyone. You know, the first year I probably spent my wife and I obviously were, we were both vegan, but we were the only vegans we knew. So, you know, so it did feel alienating. And funnily enough, we were having this conversation with, with a friend of ours who recently transitioned to becoming vegan. And she, she sort of reached out to say, you know, how do you navigate friendship groups, because I suddenly don't feel connected to people I felt connected with for years, because there is this big elephant in the room, that our ethics don't align anymore. You know, I, we fundamentally disagree. And she was like, I know it's there, I don't even think they're thinking about it. But I know it's then a can't get away from it

Charlotte Elizabeth 40:56

become such a big part of her and her heart, right, that it then hurts to know that other people don't think that but I think you have to think we, you know, unless you you're vegan for life, and you were born vegan, everyone in their life has at some point been like that. So it's really about understanding, like, you know, as much as you want people to see the light, as you've seen, the light like it takes people are at different points with it at different points in their journey with a. But surprisingly, what you were saying about friends. So 20% of our users actually use so we have dates and friend finding section and 20% of our users on the friend funding section. And I know Bumble, they have a BFF section. And that's only 3% of their users. So this comparison to ours really shows that people need that support. Right. And I think going back to the social media point as well, is people just want to connect with vegans, they don't, you know, you could be in London, there could be someone you connect with up in Manchester. But you could talk online about veganism and your own your own experiences and urine advice. And that can be almost like a little vegan friend that you might only see a couple times a year, but it could really help with with the support. So I think the fact that so many beats so many of our users use the friend vine exception really shows us that people just need that connection romantic or platonic or whatever thereafter.

Jim Moore 42:46

That's a fascinating stat out really is because yeah, it does say something, doesn't it about the community about the fact that there's 1% of us, ultimately, you know, there's only 1% of us, most of us, like you said, we live in an omnivorous world. We live with social groups, for me. And even if you took the view, as we were just saying, even if you took the view, I'm not going to have any friends who aren't vegan. The chances are you probably half your family, if not, most of them are not vegan. So you're always you can't I can't I don't think you can live in a in a bubble. You can't he can't create that bubble for yourself. No. But with that comes a sense of what we're talking about with my with my with our friends, a sense of disconnection. And so to be able to go somewhere and find a group create a connection with someone, I think I think could be invaluable, you know, and before speaking to you. And before hearing that stat I think I'd you know, I thought about it from a dating angle and thought about it. Yeah, it's incredible idea for for people who are in that space. Maybe that's not, that's not me, hopefully, hopefully won't be you know, I'm in a in a lucky enough to be in an amazing relationship and so on so forth. But actually, I think is way beyond that. I think that that's amazing to think about the friendship aspect and how many how many folks are on there for that reason? And so unique? Yeah.

Charlotte Elizabeth 44:24

I think, especially as it's a space because everyone's at least vegetarian on their own, like vegan plant based veggie. I think it's a space where you don't you don't have to explain yourself, people get it. You don't have to answer silly questions and you know about protein or those cliches about things like that. So it's really a space where people know that they're not going to get any sort of, you know, comments that they don't want to want to get in that sense because for like dating so we we see stuff on profiles like, damn if you're vegan things like that. And I know a couple of friends have one of my friends is vegan and she was seeing a guy for a while and they really got on and he said, Oh, you're perfect what you there's got to be something wrong with you, you're not vegan is like that and she was vegan, and they never saw. It never saw each other again. So it can be a real point. For some people, they don't want to date a vegan. But then similarly, a lot of vegans want to go out with someone who's vegan or veggie. So there's this kind of like, polarisation and the Yeah, how

Jim Moore 45:48

quickly is it? Is it is it taken hold? How long? How long is grazer? Been out.

Charlotte Elizabeth 45:54

So it's been out since 2017. And we've got users since the start, we've got them all over the world. And it paused for a while, but it's back with a bang, basically. So we've been working on it full time. Since March, I believe, since March or April. So yeah. So fully, fully, fully going for it. But

Jim Moore 46:26

incredible. Have you seen an uptick in in users since locked down, I'm just intrigued as to whether, you know, either either the either people being in a reflective mode, you know, or, or people just having more time or time or even like that even things like you know, I sometimes think that there's a trajectory that sort of speeds, you know, the speed of veganism kind of accelerates. You know, shortly after the, you know, a big a big, big moment a big zeitgeist, you know, see spirits see Cowspiracy game changes these moments, have these little optics in veganism, eat? Yes. Do you see that kind of thing? And is as the pandemic been one?

Charlotte Elizabeth 47:14

Yeah, we do see things like that we see trends like that. pandemic, absolutely, was one. And that's just because like you say, people are just on their phones more, and people or people were more likely to just download apps just to see what they're saying, basically. So, yeah, last year. We saw that and things like to be to be honest, we've not looked at like, around the Sea spirity time, but since you know, it is it is growing. And I think a lot of of that is to do with the fact that veganism is growing, of course that we get a lot of people find the app sort of organically because they're looking for anyway. A lot of the people we speak to say, you know, they really they really need an app like this, which is is great to hear we regularly hear from people that sort of tell us their own experience on the app, which is amazing. You know, we can see like our work in the flesh hair about people's like, love stories and see little babies come out of grazer, which is crazy. But we didn't really see things like that.

Jim Moore 48:39

Yeah, it's pretty, it's pretty amazing as a concept. Think thinking of like, and I appreciate you, you've been on board, what a year. And obviously Lewis has been there a little bit longer. But you've both sort of co founded this, this this idea together. The the technical challenges of creating an app like this, did you did you have experience in this space? Or was this very much like we've collectively got this idea? How do we make it a thing? How did that work?

Charlotte Elizabeth 49:11

Yeah, yeah. So while Lewis, his background is in production, videography and design, so he knows how to make a brand and my background is in marketing. And so I previously worked for another dating app as well. And that's how he found me basically, but we immediately got on I immediately, like grasp the concept. And I think just those two, those two skills together and a similar sort of, you know, ideology in a way really complements like what we're what we're going for at Grazer and I think I mean, some of it's what we need basically for people like ours and our friends Like, I know, sort of, we want to get past like this old fashioned veggie, veggie stereotype. And we really want to make something where we are making something for like people like us, basically. Those two skills definitely complement each other to make razor.

Jim Moore 50:19

Yeah, I can't, I wouldn't even know where to start to be honest. You know, I think we've all we've all sort of an idea at some point, you know, in the late night of about an app that will change the world, but actually, actually creating one is, you know, is another thing. So my hat is off to you. Yeah. And of course,

Charlotte Elizabeth 50:41

of course, we have a couple of devs as well. I'm not doing any coding. We've got a couple of devs.

Jim Moore 50:50

So yeah, well, of course, it makes the code makes the world go around these days. Thinking of, you know, obviously, don't want you to feel like you have to reveal any stats that you that you don't want to, but I'm just intrigued. Is there a particular country area of the area of the country even where there is a kind of a hotspot, a bigger uptake? For this kind of thing? You know, you mentioned obviously, it's worldwide is the UK a particular hotspot? And I'd imagine you know, Bristol, London, you know, this sort of the vegan kind of hotspot cities, if you like the ones that get called out it? Does it broad strokes hit those same trends? Or have you been kind of surprised at where where razors ended up?

Charlotte Elizabeth 51:36

Yes, it's interesting, actually. So like, you say that, you know, you can guess the vegan hotspots in the UK, like you just did. So we're mainly UK in US launched. And that's where we're focused. But we see people all over the world use grazer. And we really have some emerging audiences. We have emerging audiences in places like in Nigeria, and in I can't remember the other one. But that was an interesting one that we've seen recently, because we haven't done any marketing there. And we haven't done any anything, anything in a language other than English. So I think seeing like emerging audiences, and emerging user ships, in certain countries is really, really interesting. And speaking to people there as well, and is, is also, you know, fascinating to know what sort of impact an app is having sort of, in their life and in their happiness,

Jim Moore 52:55

it's just amazing thing about is sort of that the idea must be so kind of gratifying, this idea sort of spreading throughout the world, and you seeing it rise in different places at different times. It must be amazing.

Charlotte Elizabeth 53:09

Yeah, it's, it's, it's great, you know, having an impact on people in like, on an individual level, but also that have this collective belief. Is is great.

Jim Moore 53:22

Yeah. 100% under percent. It's, it's been, it's been fascinating hearing a bit about about grazer on generally genuinely very, very excited by the concepts. And particularly, and I think it's a it's a, it's a great way of thinking about it, you know, that, that this is just this is more than a dating app, it's about connecting people who are like minded, who have a, you know, a deep ethical belief, and supporting them to connect with one another when you know, they are ultimately the 1%. So I really, really do appreciate the the work you're doing at grazer? Can you just give us a little bit of a where to find grazer? I imagine it's obviously the app stores, etc. But it'd be good for folks who want to find out a little bit more where to where to connect with with you all.

Charlotte Elizabeth 54:14

Yeah, of course. So you can download grazer on iOS and Android, just type grazer into, into the search bar. And then you can follow us on social media. So we're grazer app on Instagram and Twitter. And we graze on LinkedIn if that's something that floats your boat. So yeah, Graser Graser up. And that's how you can find us. All connect with me and Louis on LinkedIn.

Jim Moore 54:43

Amazing. Well, thanks so much, Charlotte. It's been an absolute pleasure.

Charlotte Elizabeth 54:47

Yeah. Thank you so much for having me. It's been great speaking to you.

Jim Moore 54:51

There'll be links in the show notes as well for folks. So if, if you do want to check it out, and then click one of those after you're finished listening And away you go, go and go and meet your future. Your future partner or potentially your new best friend. I love it. Thanks so much. It's been a pleasure.

Charlotte Elizabeth 55:14

Thank you. Bye

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