Martin Callaghan

Jim Moore 0:14

Hello, my name is Jim, this is my podcast the bloody vegans. You're very welcome to it each week, are we travelling ever deeper into the world of veganism discovering along the way, a multitude of viewpoints from the political and ethical to the brand school? I'll be doing this through a series of conversations, each aiming to further illuminate my understanding, and hopefully yours, of all things plant centric. And this week is no different. I think we're on episode 103 By the time you get to this one, which is exciting, isn't it? And I'm delighted this week to be joined by a star of West End shows such as Joseph and his Technicolour Dreamcoat. Funny Girl, you name it is bad, but in so many I think he talks about it in the episode, but he's been in so many Western shows, as well as shows around the world, Broadway, etc, etc. A real a real talented performer is going to be Martin Callahan. He's going to be joining us. Martin is also the keen eyed amongst you, you will know that Martin was a finalist on Portugal's Got Talent, which is actually wrong. I keep saying Portugal's thoughts on it's got talent, Portugal, I think throughout the episode, I do struggle with these. So the Portuguese equivalent of Britain's Got Talent, Martin got all the way to the final. He gave some stellar performances throughout it, they're all on YouTubes well worth well worth checking out. I think his final piece was did an amazing rendition of Skyfall. From the from the Bond movies. So fantastic conversation, it obviously got into into veganism quite relatively recently, actually. So it's great to hear his perspective on on the colour of their vegan community and, and looking back on some of his experiences in in the world of theatre and, you know, just navigating the world, it says just really, really interesting hearing his take as somebody who's made this step relatively recently, so I'll be chatting to Martin Callen. Before we get to the episode though a bit of bit of podcast admin, as is usual. So to celebrate 100 episodes of the bloody vegans podcast, you can dive on the website which is www dot their bloody vegans podcast.co.uk that verb bloody vegans podcast.co.uk Head on over to the merchandise page, and you can pick up a t shirt or fair wear t shirt 100% organic cotton t shirt bearing the bloody vegans logo either in a in a nice tasteful small chest logo or in a rather large logo on the front of the shirt. So you can pick up one of those for for the princely sum of 15 pounds sterling. And not only that to celebrate 100 episodes, if you use the discount code, B V p 100. You'll get yourself 10% off as well, which is glorious, isn't it? Whilst I'm doing some admin a little bit more 27th of November at Rosslyn Park, you'll you'll know this by now if you're a regular listener, Rosslyn Park, which is a rugby ground in the south of England, west of London, that kind of area, the green gazelles rugby club that is the world's first vegan Rugby Club, which I'm honoured to be the chairman of is playing its, I'd say first competitive fifteens game of rugby against Rosslyn Park, the home side and all vegan affairs are vegan food, vegan boo beer. Lots of lots of entertainment and so on so forth. A real family evening out 15 pounds to get yourself a ticket and you can get that on www dot green gazelles rugby club.com that's www dot kringles rugby club.com I think that's all the admin so you can pick up a lovely t shirt, he can pick up a lovely ticket to the green gazelles game or for 30 English pounds. Do enjoy those wonderful treats. But anyway, without further ado, here is a conversation between me and Martin Callahan. Has anyone ever free counting from 60 Oh no.

Martin Callaghan 4:54

Oh, to be honest. Five is actually most people count 5678 That's dancing, and I don't really do any of that.

Jim Moore 5:04

No, I certainly don't. So that's not for me. Marty, it'd be awesome to get started a little bit of your personal journey into the world of veganism. What what's brought you here?

Martin Callaghan 5:17

I mean, I was I was vegetarian for a number of years. And a friend of mine who is vegan kept saying up good luck with a diet. I was Oh, thank you very, very much. And it mine's very recent. It's a very recent journey. I think I've been vegan now for about three months. And they say what it was to be honest was was listening to Maggie, Maggie ORTLIEB talking, oh, yeah, yes, you're talking about dairy cows. And of course, you know, this in your back of your head, you know it in the back of your head, you don't want to look at it. It's like, you start when you know, something's happening in your life, and you kind of just put it over to the side just to the side of your vision. So you don't ever have to look at it, address it or even think about it. And that's basically what I did with the whole idea of, you know, you know, I was like, No, I don't want to eat meat. It's terrible. It's It's barbaric, blah, blah, blah. But wasn't thinking about the same with what was happening with dairy cows. And, and just listening to her talk about it. It kind of came into focus. And I suddenly realised, yeah, you've got to you have to do something about this. You, you have to do it, and you have to do it now. And you know, I suppose it was, you know, that I was very, very silly, but will brought home this thing called, or it was a it was a cheese alternative. And I'd always try them. Hold on. Okay, this one was so good. I was like, you have no other excuse. Yeah, you have no other excuse. So, step up. And so I did, I decided this this from this, from this day forward, I'm changing. And I haven't regretted any of it. I've not regretted one moment. I've no, don't miss this. There's nothing that I miss. Seriously.

Jim Moore 7:20

And how have you found the shift that the last sort of few steps from vegetarianism onwards?

Martin Callaghan 7:26

And to be honest, it's been easy. I mean, the thing is, is that, you know, I mean, even supermarkets these days are so good, you know, we they Everything is there for you know, I find it interesting that there's so many sort of substitutes out there, you know, it's like, Hey, do you want a burger? You've got a burger. Hey, do you want to steak? Not really. But yeah, I mean, it's all it's all there. It's all there if you want it. And And so really, there's not been there's been nothing that I thought, Oh, God, this is going to be difficult. This is can't get past this. There was only one mistake I ever made. And that was having coconut milk in a coffee. And congratulations to anybody who loves it for me. It just made me go a bit a little bit. GAPI I was like, oh, no, but almond milk, oat milk. I'm very very happy.

Jim Moore 8:19

John with 100% with you on that? I can't get on board with coconut milk. I've tried. I just can't get on board. My own

Martin Callaghan 8:30

coffee for me definitely definitely almond milk. I don't know why I just find that they match each other it's like a marriage made in heaven. But yeah, I mean oat milk, oat milk, I could drink on its own to eat all day and I start to say to the cows come home and then thought better of it because this is the thing this is the reason why this is in my in my brain is the reason why everybody's like oh dairy farming it's fine. Why are we worried because it's ingrained in us having things like that, you know, we hear to the cows come home and we hear stories about you know, they show it on TV you know these beautiful green English hills and valleys of grass and and how the lead into the bonds at night. All excuse my language bullshit. But you know, it is all who we are. And and then when you sort of see the reality and or you want to look at the reality that's when you change.

Jim Moore 9:32

Yeah, you're so right is is so deeply ingrained, whether it's nursery rhymes, whether it's the side of milk trucks, they've always got that glorious, like, you know, the green English pastures in the sunlight. They never show any any children being taken away from their parents. They never show any of that sort of stuff. But it's I think somebody said it to me once in in an episode actually. And it sort of, I think it was so right. They've kind of I just caught I thought that the dairy cows were like a breed of cow that to deliver milk, which sounds like yeah, when you think about it and you say out loud, you're like, Well, of course not clearly, that is not the case they need to, you know, have be pregnant and be feeding child. But yet we're, we are fed that image that they are this this breed.

Martin Callaghan 10:21

It's crazy, but and they have to, I think that they have to otherwise they know that they wouldn't sell a product, they you know, if they showed the reality of it, I mean, I mean, you only I mean, having done a little bit more research into it, you only have to, you only have to go into a dairy farm and see one, the inhumane conditions of course, but even down to, for me, this is the, the images that I can't get my head is that is the the infected and unfettered, you know, teats that these poor cows, they just because they're milked on a daily basis, you know, they just buy these machines, it's not even, you know, this whole idea of hand, and now that's all gone and, and of course, those antibiotics that the cows have that goes through into into our bloodstream as well. So the reason that a huge reason why antibiotics are not working on human beings at the moment is because there's so many in our, in our milk and in our dairy. Yeah.

Jim Moore 11:26

You know, crazy that that's, that's completely like not in the public consciousness, not in the mainstream at all that kind of bit of information, I think it's like 80% of the antibiotics that are kind of produced are given to animals in some description, which is just crazy when you think about it, obviously crazy thinking, thinking about, you know, obviously been a vegetarian in the past, you've obviously made this transition to veganism. And you mentioned there, when you talk about your story around dairy that it's, it's kind of in the back of your mind somewhere. Do you recall like, you know, maybe hanging out with with some vegans in the past? Was there that was there kind of the sort of the shadow of veganism somewhere in the background for you? Or was it was it kind of, you know, this recent kind of move to chatting with some different folks.

Martin Callaghan 12:14

And it was, to be honest, it is a recent thing of pivot pivoting of sorry, I've just been watching friends.

But essentially pivoting my view and and being around more people who share that view, because there is a very, change is scary for everybody. There is a, you know, people, the reason why you you see people react the way that they do, to even the very mere mention of becoming vegan, is because it takes a massive mental shift for people to do it. And that is incredibly scary. And I will hold my hand up and say that I was the same. Because to me, it was like, No, you see, I love I love cheese, and I love eggs, and I love milk. So it's fine. Everything's on and you have to you have to, you have to get get past that. For me. It was mainly because I was I was you know, I on a daily daily basis, I started to have vegan people coming into our house, you know, on a daily basis, because of course, you know, my other half will is a vegan PR it's all he does. He only deals with vegan people. So of course you've got people coming around, and they're telling you things and you and it does open your mind. It really really opens your mind. I think he's learned. I know, he's learned some things. I mean, he's been vegan for way longer than I have. But even he's learning things on a daily daily basis. And I think he you know, I think for a long while we both thought it was enough to sort of, you know, well, you know, as long as we're having vegan burgers, everything's fine. And at the moment, I'm trying to make that shift into saying, I think we've done enough of the substitutes. Now, let's figure out our recipes, stuff that we really, really like, you know, that actually we think tastes good, and is good for us. And so I think it's that I think it's that whereby the thinking changes because you hear it on a daily basis because people don't people don't hear on a daily basis. They just kind of is there again, it's that thing, it's there. Nobody wants to look at it, nobody. It's fear. Yeah,

Jim Moore 14:31

yeah, I'm interested that point you raised about the transition to using using substitutes using these kind of maybe to some extent more processed foods, but but these certainly the things that feel familiar as as a kind of substitute as a transitioning point. i And I'm kind of really interested in that. I speak to a lot of people about that in you know, maybe you've been on the on the journey for for a long time. And there's often some views about it. As the sort of process element coming into veganism and it being, you know, this potential kind of Pitfall, for us this danger point, actually, is it going to turn people off veganism in the end, because they will do it for a period of time realised that they weren't getting all those glorious health benefits they saw on game changes and that kind of stuff. And then, or at least not as quickly, and then might go back. So there's there's a bit of that kind of debate. But I'm interested because you mentioned there that yeah, I've seen these as a transitioning to One, I'm already now starting to think about what's next. Are you very much in that camp, I see that there's a real positive to some of these things existing?

Martin Callaghan 15:39

I really do. I think. I think as we all know that we all we need to have a serious look at the food system and change it for the better we do. It's it's been proven scientifically, that unless we start doing something whereby we transfer to a, I think it's 90%, plant based diets or something like that, if we don't we need to do that for the planet. So I don't think there's a I don't think there's an issue whereby we have to go, well, maybe I should, maybe we have to. And I do honestly think that it's like, it's like showing people look, I know you love this, I know you you want this? Why don't you try this? Because I think you'll find it. It's a very good substitute. I mean, I don't want to do any advertisements for anybody. I

Jim Moore 16:31

know. You worry.

Martin Callaghan 16:32

But there isn't, but there is actually it's a very nice, fast, fast food restaurant, but they use organic things. And they're all over London, I'm not going to say who not going to say. And they do this burger, which I'd had often because of course being vegetarian, I was like, Well, I have that this looks really nice. And for me is better than a burger. It's better than meat is better. They're better than anything. It's it's quite astounding how good it tastes, not because it tastes like meat, because of how it tastes. It's quite astonishing. And I think if people, and I think it's kind of like here is the gateway, use this, use this, then you can transfer because you don't need as the things that you're eating, try this, try that I think I really, really, truly do think people need these things to transfer over to a plant based diet. I know that it helped me. I know, it's helped me. You know, I mean, even just as a vegetarian, it helped me because I, you know, well. Sandwich. And yeah, and it's just, it's just widely available, which I think is a very good thing. If people are seeing it in their supermarkets on a daily basis, they're tempted to try. And I think that's only a good thing. Surely it's only a good thing to have more people going, you know, I tried that it was really good. I think I'll do that again. You know, you and maybe they do. I don't know, you know, meatless Mondays or whatever they do. And then they introduce more into their diets on a regular basis. And that can only be for the good surely.

Jim Moore 18:17

Yeah. 100% Yeah, I think I think you're right and thinking about it, as you know, somebody who is relatively new into that transition. Just thinking about, like, the messaging that you found effective. And I appreciate this is a very personal answer here. I'm not asking you to sort of say what is the most effective for everybody, but in terms of like helping you get the idea, cement the idea and want to take that, that change, which for many feels feels big, even from vegetarianism to veganism, some people think that, like that is a real chasm to to overcome. Was there a particular type of messaging? So I think that's another debate that sort of sits within the vegan community quite a lot is, you know, how, how should we be activists? You know, should we be in your face? Should we be slaughterhouse footage? Should we be gently gently meet people where they are? I'd love to get you and appreciate it's personal, but your perspective on it?

Martin Callaghan 19:15

Yeah, I mean, there is a certain amount of times when I do look at activism and think, oh, I should, you know, maybe step back a little bit. But then there are other times I think, Well, absolutely, it has to happen. And for me, I think the best message that you can give is because what we really need to do is target meat eaters. I don't mean target them in their homes. I don't mean the vegans urge I want to be compassionate bots. And

Jim Moore 19:51

coming out next year, you'll

Martin Callaghan 19:57

see I can see that happening. No see Getting the film. And I think I think we do need to target meat eaters to say, because this is this is the thing whereby, for me it worked was you're not going to miss taste the because this is obviously you know, you have these people still, to this day, think, Oh, you're gonna taste like cardboard isn't and old hat like that. And unfortunately it is it is a trap. It's a trope, but people think it. And I think that's what we need to do is is target meaty to say, you're not going to miss taste. Maybe I think maybe because, you know, with vegan and vegetarian food, you do need to try harder to make it you know, to make it flavorful, you do have to season the hell out of it. And thank God because it tastes amazing. And so I think in that respect that I think maybe the message to use with people, because it certainly worked with me. I mean, I again, like I say there's there's only a certain amount of time where you think I have burger before it gets a little bit old. You know, but I mean, I quite I do have to say I sometimes am a huge, fast food vegan, you know, I mean, like was there's a in my local supermarket they do this rap that's stunning. And I just think sometimes, you know, gonna have that because it's amazing, and it tastes great. And just got vegetables in it. It's the whole thing is vegetables. It's not even like a meat alternative. The whole thing is vegetables and I love it. But I think that's maybe the the message that we need to put out there. And I you know, I but I think again, as with everything, people have to do what they feel is right for them. And if that is getting out there being militant, have at it. Yeah, please, please do because it's you're braver than I am. You're way braver than I could ever be. And thank God for you.

Jim Moore 22:06

I think sort of every movement some extent needs everybody is my sort of take on it.

Martin Callaghan 22:12

Absolutely. You do you really truly do. Everybody, you know that the political movements in this country? I mean, I hate to say it, but you know, we do need those three four party systems so that we are covered and everybody is covered so that they see a viewpoint that can be theirs. Same in same with with veganism.

Jim Moore 22:33

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Let's get right. Right by I want to I want to talk about singing, if that's right. So when When did you discover a passion for singing?

Martin Callaghan 22:50

I, my my brothers tell me that when I was about sort of four or five. This is where it gets embarrassing. Is I used to do I used to do shows based on songs that I would hear on the radio, I used to shows on our garden wall. Our garden was about I don't know, two, three foot high, two, three vote was nothing. And I used to stand and wait for people to go past. And then literally just follow them along the road. To like, go past the house, and then start again for the next person. But apparently, that's I don't I actually do not remember this. I

Jim Moore 23:24

love it. But this is performance for passers by. That's incredible.

Martin Callaghan 23:29

I think so I think I've always been a bit extra, shall we? So yeah, so that's that's kind of that's, you know, the the basis of it, I think. And I just remember getting to a point where I thought, well, you know what, I want to write these stories. And I want to, I want to write about these characters and did it and then I just thought no, no, write about them all and be the characters. So then I thought, yeah, I need to go train, I need to go and train to be an actor. And then I just happen to see, I was in. I was in Manchester I live in meant I lived in Manchester for years, and I've got no accent but once I get back to Manchester, it comes straight. I straight out and in fact wills in Manchester at the moment. So he'll probably be come back speaking man. And, and I saw a musical at the Opera House, weirdly, with a woman who's actually now a really, really good friend of mine. And I remember just watching it and literally just staring at the stage open mouth for the whole show just going oh my god. Oh my god. And I thought if musicals can do this, that's what I want to do if they can, if they can tell a story viscerally. And as bravely as this one does. It was a Vita. And you know, they didn't shy away from from the story of Eva Braun. They really went for it and said she was not the nicest of women, shall we say? and they really it was brilliant it was, but I know that everybody knows Don't Cry For Me Argentina songs are fantastic. And the way it was stated, it's an otter classic, and I loved every minute. And that's what I thought. Yep, this is for me, this is what I want to do. And so I just went straight into that theatre, I went back, I was at college, and I went back and said, What do I need to do to get on the musical theatre course? And they went, Oh, okay. So I just changed over. And that was it and carried on from there.

Jim Moore 25:28

Wow. Wow. So from singing on the wall, to the West End? How? How, how's the average? Obviously, you started studying, like you say, but, but even from that point from college to, to get into where you've got to, to appearing in, you know, top class world class shows on the West End. How did you get there? What was that journey? Like?

Martin Callaghan 25:52

It was? Well, it was hellish, shall we say? I didn't, once I left college, you know, I think everybody thinks that you're going to be in college. And you know, I've seen it all the time. You know, you see, especially now that I'm of a certain age, I'm not going to say well, and you see it, you see kids coming out of college, and you go, Oh, bless. And they're just like, I'm going to do this. I'm going to start anything. Yeah, no, something. Unless, you know, there's very few people where it actually does the literally, they go from their first job starring the palladium and it's like, wow, okay, good for you. I didn't I literally left college and went, Okay, what am I going to do? Didn't? Wouldn't nobody would touch me. I don't mean it that way. I mean, nobody, nobody would nobody would come anywhere near me. I was literally like, am I gonna do what what am I going to do? And I and when I left college, I think it was about a year, year and a half, before I actually got a sniff at a job. And it was the weirdest way possible. I have to tell you this story, because it's, there's my shame, my shame. And two. And also it's kind of like one of those stories you go, Oh, am I was a was a was a club in Manchester called the Press Club. And it was kind of an after hours drinking establishment. That makes it sound really nice. But it wasn't sufficient racism. Nice. But I loved it. Because, you know, we, we I used to work at the power seizures and OSHA. Right. Oh, there's some more stories all the time. But anyway, and we'll get to that another time. But I was I we just finished a night working on the show. And I was watching the show and thinking this is so good. I really wish I could be in this. And you know, in your could sing and the Press Club. They used to have a live band. And so they did live karaoke. And I'd had a few. Sherry's, shall we say? 70. You know, and decided, you know, I'm going to do I'm going to get up and I'm going to do karaoke. So I sang summertime. Right? away. I don't know why I chose that somebody. And this girl came up to me, who was one of the cast of the musical. And she said, Can you sing like that? sober? Yeah, I can was really, really belligerent. And she went from this number in the morning, and you're gonna get an audition. Oh, service like that. Went home. Yeah, audition did about three auditions and got the job. And that was it was my first job from Sofer being utterly, utterly rat asked to gain my first ever tour, which was chest the musical by Abba. Fabulous, you know, you know, it was serious. Pretty, pretty special. And but yeah, so good. Things can come out getting drunk. Not many. But some things can. I don't do it. Don't do it anymore at all. Or

Jim Moore 29:13

what one incredible story.

Martin Callaghan 29:16

weird, very weird, but that's how that's literally how it started. Forget the training. Just getting in there getting drunk. Well done me.

Jim Moore 29:24

Well, the I mean, it's unique. It's unique. Absolutely. And talk us through some of the shows you've been in since because you've been in all kinds of different things. I mean, a few of them. I've worked

Martin Callaghan 29:34

I've worked a lot of Andrew Lloyd Webber, and most people will know him because he wrote cats. He also did cast the film, which is an abomination and needs to be burned. But it's really not my favourite. I love the people who are in it. Don't get me wrong. The people are in a grey bar from James Corden. He could do one. I've got friends here. And I just think they're totally fantastic. And I watch it and I think this is could have been so good. And it's just Tosh, unfortunately. But yeah, I've worked a lot of Android Weber, he probably not anymore after that.

Jim Moore 30:12

If he listens to the bloody vegans podcast, I'll be pretty impressed.

Martin Callaghan 30:16

You never know. You know, I have to say I was looking at the I was looking at the famous vegans on Wikipedia about a week ago thinking, Oh, I wonder, you know, the, you know, the fraternity that I belong to let me go and have a look. And I was like, oh, there's a couple of mass murderers there. That's interesting. Oh, how lovely. It was. Darien so glad to have left that one. So that's fine to me. But yeah, so a lot of Lloyd Webber. I've done Joseph, on stage and on film. I've done musicals. 123456 of his musicals. I do also to that he produced but didn't write, and in sound and music and the Wizard of Oz, he wrote some new songs for the Wizard of Oz. Right. What else am I done? I've worked for a guy probably nobody knows him. But I think he's a god. And Stephen Sondheim worked for him. Couple of times. Just amazing. I've done a Chicago I did that all over the world where international tour with that went to Broadway all over America, Europe, the Far East. Oh, yeah, it was it's stunning tour, because that's, that's the most amazing part of the job is getting to go to other places. You know, it's lovely being home, which is what I want to do now. And all I ever want to do now is I want a job in the West End, so I could just get back to Watford and just be sorry. Because those days of wanderlust are gone. I'm afraid. I just want to be at home now. But in that day and age, it was phenomenal. I mean, just like coming to, you know, going to South Korea, and then going into North Korea, you know, just just have because they said we'll take you over we're like no, no, we're fine. No, come on with us. We'll be fine. Don't worry about it. Okay. Yeah, so just stuff like

Jim Moore 32:17

that. Cool. I'll take it. Well, I mean, we're here to tell the tale.

Martin Callaghan 32:21

I mean, we you know, we didn't have any problems because it was all sanctioned. You know, it was we were working not for the South Korean government, but we were working for a very big company over there. And they basically sorted it all out for us so that we could go and we visited the I want to call it the DMV, but that's not right. demilitarised DMC, DMZ, DMZ demilitarised zone. So we visited there. And then we went down this sort of back road, when and literally, the next set. We were in North Korea. And you could really tell because, like, no street lighting and things like that was very odd. Really? Oh, yeah. It was just like, Yeah, I can't really describe it. Very strange place. I mean, we're there for five minutes. And then we're right. And we're back in Seoul before you know it. But yeah.

Jim Moore 33:15

And then you're back in Seoul doing Joseph?

Martin Callaghan 33:26

Oh, we I mean, that was I mean, that was the one of the strangest things I think I've ever done. We were one of the producers was a Buddhist monk. Right, which was, which is like, where did he get the money? Anyway, good for him. And, and, um, you know, and we went for this ceremony where he wanted to bless the show. And we were on, you know, I'm quite a big guy. Always have been, and I was on my knees for about an hour going, oh, please this be over. Please let it be over. And just every now and again, you'd hear Chicago and a stream of? Well, Chicago, well, and then the name of somebody in the company. And you know, you know, he's going through the blessing everybody was gonna get to me. Yes, it was. It was a strange experience. Fabulous. But really, really odd.

Jim Moore 34:21

Fascinating that maybe there's some Buddhist sort of metaphors in Chicago that I've missed. I don't know.

Martin Callaghan 34:29

Well, if you want to know the real truth, you're gonna have to edit this. Now. You want to have the real you want to have the real and parently when North Korea became sorry, South Korea became the country that it is when America kind of took over which they did. They took over and then kind of took over they took over. And it was it was kind of like well, you either stop doing because there was lots of like gangsters and stuff and Major gang warfare going on. And the government clamped down on it. Basically, anybody who was hired in the sort of Korean mafia became a monk. And that's how we had the money.

Jim Moore 35:18

So if you come across a Buddhist monk with a with a slightly too much money, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Perhaps putting on Western shows.

Martin Callaghan 35:29

Yeah. avoid like the plague because they want to dance with you all night. Wow, much to my shame. I literally couldn't get away from the man. And the worst thing is our company manager who's like, supposed to be there to protect you is like pimping me out and like going no, no, no, thank you. I told you dance with him. No, it was very, it was very, very weird, wonderful experience, but also very weird.

Jim Moore 35:54

Incredible. Incredible. Is there a particular favourite musical for you? There's what if I said to you, now you get to you get to put one on. You get to start whatever role you want you're in, which would be the musical.

Martin Callaghan 36:09

And you know what? I think it's I think because it's as old as I am. Which makes it very old. Joseph. Joseph, because I did it. So I wanted to I wanted to do it when I was like five. I think one of the shows I must have done on the wall was Joseph. Just singing all the songs to that and annoying people. And I do remember being at school and making my teacher make me a dream code out of this colourful material. And I was like, make it now. Just just strange kid. So I think Joseph because yeah, like I say it's as old as I am. Plus, I've done it often and love it. And one of the things I loved about it was at the very end of Joseph these days, there's a 12 minute Megamix which is basically a giant Zumba workout. And I was the centre side ever been? I loved it My name is Martin.

Jim Moore 37:09

Can I can ask a really silly naive question. Yeah. I've seen a few musicals. Western, I've actually been lucky enough to see Chicago Broadway, so I might see you and want to see you. And I'm always amazed at and obviously these people are like, you know, the best in the business, right? But I'm always just amazed like night after night. matinees evening shows like, there's just absolutely bringing the light this ridiculous level of energy. And if you're lucky enough to see two shows in a row, like the, you know, the same show a couple of nights or something like that. You can't really see it, you think, oh my god, it's like, it's somehow the same, but yet there's difference to it. And you know, that it's amazing. Like, what's, what's the reality like, of doing that kind of thing? Does it become like a, like a job? Like, you can just turn that on?

Martin Callaghan 38:00

Yeah, I mean, I don't. Yeah, I mean, don't let me I don't want to, like, you know, pull back the curtain and go. This is this is the Wizard of Oz said it's rubbish. No, no, I mean, we it does become bit of job, it does become, you know, you're you sort of go, especially if you're in the West End, because, of course, there are things, it's a wonderful, wonderful profession to be in is because it you get, you know, a lot of perks from it. And, you know, it is very nice to be in front of an audience when they love you. It's fantastic. Yeah, very nice. But the most important thing is getting home. Sounds terrible, but you know, it's like, it's like, literally, you're finished showing every right by sure on the tube all the way home. Because that's what people need to do, because they want to be with their families. And so in that respect, it is like a job that you go in, you do your job, and you try and do it to the best of your ability. And, and, you know, everyday will differ because, of course, you know, you know, you were saying like everybody's like the best in the business. On certain days. Yes. And on other days, well, because, of course, you know, we, you know, everybody has an off day. And, you know, and especially, I mean, I got I mean, you send yourself, you you have a three year old and you know, I've got you know, I've been working with it not recently but you know, in the past work with new fathers and new mothers, and they're just going out of their mind, and they've, you can literally tell they've had an hour's sleep, and they have to get on with their job. And, you know, that kind of thing is wonderful, I think, because they're doing it, they're doing it one because they love it, but to because they're doing it for their family. And yeah, and that's wonderful. So in that respect, yes, it is like a job. But you get the perks of all the other things like you know, applause and claim, you know,

Jim Moore 39:57

there's not many jobs where you know, you do Good day in the office and you get a standing ovation for

Martin Callaghan 40:02

exactly the most you might get. If you know is the boss going, well done. That's really good. Which is nice. But that you know, 2000 people doing.

Jim Moore 40:13

So thank you so much. It's

Martin Callaghan 40:14

yeah, it's wonderful. There is very often if I have to take about on my own, I will cry. I don't know why. I have no idea why. I will cry my eyes out. Because it just affects me in that way. Maybe I don't believe maybe I don't believe I deserve it. Jim, I don't know.

Jim Moore 40:36

Do to be personal on whilst we're in a personal disclosure space? Every musical I watch or cry out? Can't there's something about people singing that well, and it being so and then belting it out? It makes me like, again, personal disclosure. Watching your your YouTube on I always get this the wrong way around. But Portugal's Got Talent watching it rise like Phoenix, I think he did was and I was welling up. Sorry, that genuinely, genuinely is incredible. But it does is does something to me that when people can sing that well, and they're absolutely belting out giving it their heart and songs. It's just amazed. That's not really a question.

Martin Callaghan 41:30

I'm just telling you. I don't know. I mean, but the thing is, I mean, I love to hear that because I do whenever I do something like that I do try and put my absolute heart and soul into it. You know, there's, I can't do middle ground I've been a lot of people don't like you because I can't what they call mark. I can't like do it halfway. I'm terrible. I just have to give all the time. Even in rehearsals, which people don't like, I'm terrible. I'll be like giving 100% of their going cheeses, you know, give us a break. Give us a break. I'm just you know about an hour's sleep. But i Bye. Just find it really difficult to kind of not do the show. And when we're even church hall rehearsing? Yeah. Just the way I'm built. I think so yeah, I do. And thank you for saying that I do try and put my absolute heart and soul into it.

Jim Moore 42:23

Or you can feel it, you can absolutely feel it even on a YouTube video watching on your phone. You know, like, I think that for someone to have that level of talent to be able to affect people emotionally through in something like that. It's just like, you know, if you're a spiritual person, I think it's, you know, God given, you know, it must be that it's credible.

Martin Callaghan 42:43

But again, at the end of that there's me crying, because people unfortunately, it's showing all my chins, just the moment I saw machines come as I put into

Jim Moore 42:59

the crowd, the audience reaction in that, though, I mean, I think you know, it wasn't alone in being affected in that way. A lot of the standing of it, I can see why you would have, you would have choked off in that moment as well. Just incredible reaction from that audience, you know, so like an organic one. Just amazing. I truly didn't

Martin Callaghan 43:17

expect it because everything is our you knew that was coming down. I'm like, No, I honestly didn't. Because if I'm honest, I eat you never know where these things. It's such. You putting yourself completely and utterly on the line. Because it's very different. You know, I mean, like, you know, if you're doing a show, you know what to expect, you know, if you're going to the West End, you know what to expect, and you're there because they like you, and they want you to do well. Whereas if you're doing these things, it's like, well, you have no idea what they're going to say about you at all. I mean, you know, so I couldn't I was honestly expecting them to go, oh, nice voice but you know, you're 51 So why are you here? That's honestly why I thought this was gonna happen. So then, and that was two years ago. So So yeah, so it was I did honestly think that maybe I would, they would just go nice voice but no. So together that was quite astonishing.

Jim Moore 44:12

I never thought about that. But the I mean, it's pretty obvious to you, but it never occurred to me that that idea that in your absolute right? If I go and pay to see lame is I want you to do well. I've paid to see Les Mis, we're gonna have a great time is you know, and so forth. But on a talent show. Yeah, there's, there's a impress me kind of vibe ungenerous.

Martin Callaghan 44:32

And there's a terrible, I mean, it's actually less so now, I think, thank God, but there's terrible sort of gladiatorial. You know, wanting people to be bad, that sort of Yeah. You know, and then the being crap, there is quite a lot of that in those talent competitions. So you do you do put yourself out there and you put yourself on the line to do those kinds of things. And but I am glad that I did it. I am absolutely I don't know. I don't know if I would do it again. If I'm honest. I don't I'm serious. I don't know if I would, but I'm so glad that I did it. So glad.

Jim Moore 45:08

What What led you to do it in the first place? Because you know, for for people who might have they might be trying to draw the dots here and think, okay, so western theatre, we're in North Korea. We've been on how we got on Britain's Got our we got on Portugal's got talent and you must correct me I keep getting it wrong. It's the other way around.

Martin Callaghan 45:31

grammatical structure in Portugal, it's got talent, Portugal. I even said it right to go. And what the reason do literally the reason was because I was living there. I was living there. They're not actually at the time, I just moved back. But I applied while I was living there, because I just thought, you know what, I live here now. And I'm teaching not acting really anymore. I wasn't I hadn't been on stage for about properly for about three years, something like that. Yeah. And I just thought, why not? Why not? What What can it hurt? And I thought, you know, if the least that I get out of it is more students coming to the school that I was teaching at Harar. But I never could have envisioned everything that happened. So yes. And then I came, came back started working here in the UK. And then it went out on TV. And of course, weirdly, I was worried, because of course the pandemic happened. Yeah. That was fun. And so I started I was out. So the job that I was actually doing finished, which was a shame. And I started working in Tescos Oh, can I say I started working in a supermarket. And and weirdly, although in in Watford all the way from Portugal, I had people going, Are you using man from Portugal has got talent? Yes. So it's really weird. That was the strangest thing, being in Watford and having people from Portugal going. It's you. So that was that was interesting. I never expected that.

Jim Moore 47:13

I bet. People asking for a rendition of sky for the fruit.

Martin Callaghan 47:20

Actually, I had to kiss because I had the boss found out about it. And she made me do like a half hour spot, literally. Right in the front foyer of Tesco. Yeah, it's great. I did a charity.

Jim Moore 47:41

It's a different. Surely a different billing structure needs to be applied to Tesco for your services there.

Martin Callaghan 47:48

I mean, I was basically just said I was I'm the man on till 90. Here's what else to say really? Because nobody, nobody stops and goes well, that's amazing. They literally just going camo any bananas. So it's not like they go wow, you know, people are shopping.

Jim Moore 48:09

So I won't take so suppose they're just not expecting Skyfall whilst they're buying Why would you know why would any moving mountains burgers

Martin Callaghan 48:17

exactly the suddenly confronted by this Ginger Man and the like, hell just going on away, you know. And so you know, I'm getting a meal deal. So, you know, what can you do? So yeah, but it was fun, though, I did enjoy it. And it was just I have to say it was very nice working at Tesco. There are lovely, lovely people, like family can edit.

Jim Moore 48:41

It's just, it's just thinking about that, because I've heard that kind of a story from a lot of people in, in arts in kind of health and fitness, you know, in the musical, in a world of music, in gig venues, all kinds of things, people just having to turn to these different, different professions just to just to make ends meet. What's What's your kind of your view how optimistic you're feeling kind of going forward about about that world?

Martin Callaghan 49:06

I mean, I've got Thank God, I have things in the pipeline. You know, I'm not, nothing's concrete. And nothing may come of, of what I'm auditioning for at the moment, but I've got auditions. And so I'm, I think something will happen. And we'll just have to see, I didn't actually lose the job. Unfortunately, because of the whole clash with schedules with we've got talent and the job that I had, which was a real pain, but that would have been wonderful. But so you know, there are things happening. And, you know, the the unfortunate thing that seems to be happening at the moment, and is that basically a show will start. Like I think it's happened twice to Joseph in the West End, which is in the west end at the moment. It's happened twice to it in that somebody will get COVID or there'll be exposed to somebody with COVID. Even if they're literally just passing them on a tube, and if they're paid, they have to tell the company manager, and then the whole show is shut down for 10 days. So that's happening all over the so many shows at the moment that all have started, and then cannot continue because they've got COVID restrictions, this and the other. So I know it's gonna get better. But yeah, it's hard. It's hard work at the moment. And at the moment for me, I would rather kind of I'm quite enjoying being away from it so that I don't have to deal with that. Because that's, that's that's hard work. That's, that's scary stuff.

Jim Moore 50:38

Yeah, absolutely. I sort of wonder whether you'll be best positioned to talk about this, but I do sort of looking at and speaking to the few people I've spoken to in these kind of fields. Wonder how much or how little support they've had really in this this space? Because I do think it's, you know, that they're the kind of things that actually our culture is built on, you know, music, performance, art, you know, these kind of things are, they're so critical to us. But yeah, they're almost like the first things to go when you're in this situation. The first thing is to not be supported. Is that kind of your your experience of it? Do you think there is enough support going on?

Martin Callaghan 51:19

No, I mean, that seem fortunate side of everything. I mean, the I think people are I think people in the arts are looked upon as like, well, you know, love is, you know, there is that there is the idea that, you know, it's the luvvies and people forget, well, they are the people that you watch on TV every night, they are the people who are in EastEnders, they are the people who are in Coronation Street and all the other soaps that you watch on a regular basis. They These are those people. And and from certainly I have received zero help from a what's it called sat sisal or size or something like that? Zero, because the the tax position that I'm in, and that's been the same for an awful lot of people. And there's been a few charities that have been offering, I've tried not to take it because I know that there's people way more in needs than I am. And thank God, like I say, I managed to get some work. Even if it's just in a supermarket, I managed to get something that meant that the rent was being paid and the bills being paid, etc. So yeah, there are charities out there that have been helping the arts and that's great. But no, hasn't nothing has nothing has been done, to truly, truly help them. And it's it's such a shame, it really is a shame. Because I think people do take people in the arts for granted because they think we earn a vast amount of money and we don't we don't earn a vast amount of money we do in a comfortable wage. But it's not like in the you know, the 1000s upon 1000s upon 1000s of pounds, I think happens. It just isn't. But yeah.

Jim Moore 53:06

Yeah, I think I think you're right, I think some people probably see the very small percentage who were at the very top end of the top is, you know, the work for Marvel or whatever and do a franchise film. That's not the reality of cast and crew in most productions. Oh, God,

Martin Callaghan 53:26

no, no, I mean, you've got certain people who will be on a very good wage I know of a certain actress in the west end to a couple of years ago was on an amazing wage. And I was just like that, well, you know what, she deserves it. And I'm glad she's getting it. And that's absolutely deserving for her. But then there'll be other people who will just be doing their day to day and they get I don't know, maybe about, like, 1200 a month, something like that. Maybe a bit more. It's not, it's not a lot. It's not like 1000s upon 1000s of pounds. It's you know, but it's a monthly wage, and it pays the bills. And that's what people love to do. I mean, there's unfortunately, a lot of actors and actresses out there who do have to take a second job, but isn't that most people these days? Yeah.

Jim Moore 54:15

satisfy the sigh? Yeah. Obviously. Going back to Got Talent, because I'm still fascinated by that. jumped around here. But we got the somewhere. So I want to go back to it. You got all the way to the final. Right. Yeah. Which is just amazing. The the reaction from the folks over there did they wish there was they kind of they fascinated that this kind of guy from Manchester England had come over and there was was it got that far? Was it kind of a bit of a surprise to them?

Martin Callaghan 54:47

Well, it was a bit half and half I have to say because the the unfortunate thing is I think this is endemic to every single country in the world. There is a certain amount of the population will be like well, it's Portugal's got talent isn't it is Britain's Got Talent. So why is this bound to be because it just is. The unfortunate thing about that is that they are incredibly vocal on on Facebook. My videos, I was like, oh my goodness, there's hundreds of comments. Just awful somehow, it's just like, I'm not going to read this, I have to turn it off. I have to turn it off. Because some of them were just truly just awful, you know, just slightly, some that were a tiny bit homophobic. But the vast, vast majority of them were mostly xenophobic about why is he here? It's Portugal's Got Talent exaggerated. But, you know, that happens over here. The amount of people you hear going, yeah, these people from Hungary on Britain's Got Talent. pathetic, but so that was, so the importance that there was there was about, I would say, an unfortunate vocal minority, who will like that, but the vast majority of people who've reached out to me have been wonderful and so supportive and just really lovely. And it has really made it a great experience just to have that sort of support. There's been lots of support there. Which I was so surprised about, because I just thought people would kind of go for Manchester's for England. Why? So? Yeah, so that's been great. And, and knowing like me, like, just the actual night, I stupidly decided to keep my phone with me, not on stage. But when I was off stage, and I was just looking through it, and I was just getting like, messages on Instagram all the time. I was like, Oh, just but it was off support. It was lovely. So yeah, there was like I say, the vast majority of people lovely. But there was a vocal minority who just were not happy about the green. Doing your talent portugu Yeah.

Jim Moore 56:54

How are you feeling in that final? I can't imagine like, you know, you've sort of applied for on a bit of a Well, I'm here let's give it a go. And then you've you must have sort of pinched yourself. What am I doing here?

Martin Callaghan 57:06

I mean, it was so it was so weird, because you have that I'm terrible. I like to be as self effacing as possible. I'm not I don't like to aggrandized myself in any way shape or form I just feel a bit weird about it and so to be there at the final was very much like oh my god oh. Oh, did win. Oh could win. And it was very difficult to kind of like find a balance of of going. Oh, I feel Yeah, I feel okay about this. I'm might win. I might not win. And but of course, you know, you get to a point where you think I would like to when that would be nice. But yeah, the you know, the the weirdest thing to the weirdest thing is that oh, sorry. My my babies here. Hello. Hello. Hello. Yes. Can you go into the living room? Sorry, it's my dog. Gone. Sofa. Sofa could go by her lap. microlab sofa Gary. She's gone. She speaks Portuguese bless.

Jim Moore 58:12

I see. Fair enough.

Martin Callaghan 58:14

But what was i What was I saying? Oh, yes, the weirdest thing about being in Portugal was the is the lack of vegan choices there are really like you walk you like you know, because if there's a law here in the UK that says every single restaurant has to have vegetarian or vegan options on the menu. Which is phenomenal. Not so in Portugal. So you wander into a restaurant and you go well what are you eating choices? What and it's just they literally look at you blankly yeah they look at you completely blank and it's and say you're just going well have salad with eggs? No Is that a terrible thing? Have you know like your mother going vegan beef Can't you you know the whole country does that so that was that was that was interesting and very difficult. Very very difficult. Sorry, just one second. My mother in law has just decided that's the time to flush the toilet Well, no. So you said during the podcast I need to record it

Jim Moore 59:33

coming through you can have a bit of beef So Connie

Martin Callaghan 59:40

eggs when you have an omelette vegan for that size, that is unfortunately the sort of mentality

Jim Moore 59:51

Wow. So it was was this was the show like that too. Like we you know when you when you're when you're there? Did you have to sort of explain what couldn't get the half, you know,

Martin Callaghan 1:00:01

they kept trying to say you can have this as vegetarian and like I said got cheese in it. Yeah. But I can't, I can't ever know is his specialty area, right? No, I'm vegan. I don't have dairy. But it's cheese. Yeah, so there's a lot of that going on. So I had some very nice salads. So that was nice. It was like it was like, a lot of the time basically, the only thing was like salad and fries. But the sellers were good. So had lots of salads.

Jim Moore 1:00:31

There's still I'll still come across the place like that. Even over here, very rarely now, but like you say most places have something but where you have to kind of concoct something out of various sides. You know, the sort of sides tap pass. The OS vegans often have to, to endure, which is like, you know, some some things that don't really belong together that are often very carbee.

Martin Callaghan 1:00:53

Yeah, get a car tastic is just Yeah, literally, you feel like you're living off of a carb based diet is actually the worst thing is, Will God bless him is he's allergic to soy. So even even in a vegan restaurant, he struggles. Yeah, he struggles quite a lot. Because, you know, a lot of things are made with Sawyer a staple. Yeah. And so he can't have that. So he's, you know, I saw him he had he had like, a sent me a picture of his meal, I thought looked lovely. But he was like, it was like a non deep salad with pomegranate and on deep leaves. And I was like, it's great. You know, that's, yeah, but everything else has got soy in it. He wasn't happy. He was having to have leaves.

Jim Moore 1:01:43

I Celeste say Fair enough. Fair enough. Well, Marty, Tom's getting away with this. In Georgia. So where would folks go to find out a little bit more. I know, you've got an EP out at the moment, which I thoroughly recommend everyone listened to. So where would they go about getting hold of that? Check out some of the Portugal Got Talent stuff. I still can't do right. Got Talent portal.

Martin Callaghan 1:02:07

I mean, you can see all the Portugal's got I've done it myself now. Well done. Thank you. You can see all the talent Portugal videos on YouTube. They're under there. They have their own and also I think their own Got Talent global as well, which is, you know, all over the world, which is very nice. Because he's kind of you know, but again, people they they put Freddie Mercury above my head. And I'm like, No, I'm not. So people are like messaging going. You think you Freddie Mercury. You're not Freddie Mercury. Like, No, I know. I'm not. Well, so you can see those on YouTube. I do have any layout is called sore. And it's on Spotify, which hopefully, if you're listening on Spotify Now, listen to the end of the podcast, and then go and listen. One click away. Yes. So So yeah, and it's all on all the other digital platforms as well. You know, wherever it wherever you can download stream, good music, and mine too. So, yeah.

Jim Moore 1:03:16

I'll put a link in the show notes. So people can as soon as they've finished listening to this, they can give it a click and head over to their music provider of choice. So yeah, all good. Andriessen Thank you mine. It's been an absolute pleasure chatting with you. Thank you so much for your time. It's been great dogs and toilet flushes all sorts as well. Staying in, oh, word staying.

Martin Callaghan 1:03:42

Show my mother and all will be happy. She's outside. I'm in a fog at the moment.

Jim Moore 1:03:47

God bless we leave it all. Why not? Why No. Thanks so much. It's been a pleasure. My pleasure. Thank you, Jim. Cheers.