Rebecca Gade-Sawicki
Jim Moore 0:16
Hello, my name is Jim, this is my podcast the bloody vegans, you're very welcome to it. Each week, I'll be travelling ever deeper into the world of veganism, discovering along the way a multitude of viewpoints from the political and the ethical to the practical. I'll be doing this through a series of conversations, each aiming to further illuminate my understanding, and hopefully yours, of all things plant centric. And this week is no different. I think it's Episode 104, I'm going to be chatting with Rebecca GAID. So wiki, Rebecca is the founder of veggies abroad, which is an amazing travel blog and guide for vegan folks feeding curious folks, people who perhaps want to take on a holiday from a vegan perspective, you know, when it comes to food and travel and all the other considerations that that might affect them. The other wonderful thing that veggies abroad offers his advice to folks with intolerances or various kinds food intolerances. And Rebecca is sharing, you know, her personal experience here, as well, as you know, from that personal experience, she then went on a learning journey about all kinds of other intolerances and how to accommodate for those when you're out and about wanting to see the world and, and, and, you know, not being limited by them. So it's an incredible resource, really, I would thoroughly recommend everyone who loves to travel and is considering travel, or even actually somebody who, you know, maybe maybe it's they want to look at whether their own area is covered by by Rebecca, you know, are they missing something that's actually just just on their doorstep and they weren't aware. So do check that out a little bit of admin before we get into the episode in the time honoured fashion, there are various ways to support the bloody vegans podcast, and it would be remiss of me not to tell you about them. Firstly, Patreon, if you head over to Patreon and you search for the buddy vegans podcast, you can subscribe over there with a little monetary donation, which will give you all kinds of things you can get everything from shoutouts in the Episode Notes, and in the episodes to merchandise, all kinds of things in exchange for your your subscription fee, which is glorious, isn't it. So if you'd like to support the podcast that way, you certainly can. Another way to do it is to if you're if you're an apple podcast listener, this is is to head over to Apple podcasts, to the bloody vegans page on there and you will see a subscribe button for just 99 pence per calendar month, you can receive early access to episodes. So for example, some of you folks will be listening to this episode on the third of October. Other folks will be listening to it about a week later. So you can get early access and ane who ultimately is there to support the podcast to keep the keep the lights on in Bali vegans tower so if you particularly enjoy this content, and you would like it to be able to keep going, then do head over there, that would be lovely. Thank you so much. There's also merchandise etc. On www dot the bloody vegans podcast.co.uk Do feel free to check all of that out. Lots of shameless plugs there. But you know, we've got to keep the lights on. So another piece of admin for you. November The 27th. The green gazelles rugby club, the world's first vegan rugby club will be taking part in their first ever ticketed affair, first ever fifteens game against I think Rosslyn Park, who are the home team, I say think because then we may have a different opposition in mind. But the venue hasn't changed. It's still at Rosslyn Park, sort of southwest of London, that kind of area. You can check out all things to do with the big green clash which is the title of the event at Green gazelles rugby club.com, that's green gazelles rugby club.com, you can buy tickets there, they are selling at a pace. I do recommend you get one because the venue is not huge. It's not a big stadium. So if you want to be part of that, and get your hands on some vegan food, perhaps some green gazelles, merchandise, vegan beers and wines and all kinds of other stuff, then then do get yourself a ticket and get yourself in line online for the group bigger in Clash. Almost said that without stuttering still did. So there you go say TV. Anyway, is time to get on with the episode. So without further ado, Episode 104 I think with Rebecca gates, a wiki, the founder and blogger behind veggies abroad.
So, it'd be awesome to get started a little bit of your personal journey into the world of veganism what's kind of brought you here.
Rebecca Gade-Sawicki 5:18
So, prior to becoming a vegan, I was a vegetarian for my gosh, I think, well over a decade, I first became a vegetarian when I was here in the States considered middle school. So about 13. Ish. I had to write to a senator about an issue that I thought needed reform for a history class. And at the time, my sister had become a vegetarian. And I grew up in a very rural town was a four h kid, I had horses, we lived on a farm, like becoming a vegetarian at that time, was very uncommon. And so everyone thought when my sister did it, that that she was crazy that it was a face. And I really looked up to her. So when I had to write this letter, I thought, okay, who am I going to ask? Let me ask her, what does she think I should write about? And so she told me that I should write about slaughterhouse reform. And I was like, okay, you know, what, 13 year olds gonna say no to their sister, they idolise. Um, and so I started doing research into that, and I thought, Oh, my God, I cannot eat another hamburger, any of this again, like she was right. This is insane. And so from there, I started my journey with vegetarian, as you know, through high school and into university. But like, so many people kind of had the disconnect about, you know, the dairy industry and all that I was one of the many that always said, Oh, I can't give up dairy. Like, I love cheese kind of thing. But I dealt with some health issues in my early 20s, and could never kind of rectify it. And I didn't always, you know, take really great care of myself, I dealt with multiple eating disorders when I was younger. And, you know, I finally found a doctor that would kind of listen to like, what was going on with me, I'm trying to figure out how to take care of myself. And he said, Okay, let's do a food sensitivity test. And so he did. And it came back that I was sensitive to casein, I was sensitive to gluten, and I needed to get rid of all this stuff. And at first, even after hearing that, from him, and seeking out this advice, I still kind of had this wall, like, it can't be the dairy. And I found was it a little bit in the beginning, but then finally, I was like, No, I, I gotta I have got to commit to this, there's a reason. And so I did, and I felt immensely better. And then at the time, I was doing a lot of running. And I was, you know, researching into better ways to feel my body and take care of myself because I wanted to really rectify some of the damage I had done when I was younger. And so I was reading a, you know, different books from different athletes who were plant based. And, you know, they were talking about all the other things that they were doing, and, you know, the ways that they could fight inflammation and improve their athletic performance. I thought, you know, I've been missing out on all this, like, this is this is right. And so I just further continued to move in to lean into that. And, you know, I slowly like, I'd gotten rid of the dairy, but I still kind of hung on to maybe I still need eggs, but then after reading some of that stuff, I was like, No, I don't need this. And then doing a little bit more of a deeper dive into what you know, it took to produce all of that. I was I thought, you know, I I have blood on my hands still, and I don't need it. So what am I doing? Um, and so I would say I've probably been a vegan now for about four years. It was a slow process to get to it. But I cannot imagine ever looking back and I'd say the only regret I have is why in the world did it take so long?
Jim Moore 9:18
I think we all share that one, don't we? Absolutely. Thinking about your your your the health issues that you have the sensitivities etc. did. Did you get the change that you wanted from when these dietary changes?
Rebecca Gade-Sawicki 9:33
Yeah, absolutely. Honestly, it was night or day, night and day. Um, so along with being sensitive to casein, which is a protein and dairy and gluten, I was also very, very sensitive to a starch called tapioca along with a few other things like Carageenan and some other things. And so once I paid attention to all of that and eliminated everything, that was an irritant or that I I was intolerant to, it was honestly, I felt like a new person. There were so many times where I hated going out to eat because I felt like I was always gonna feel sick. And you know, even eating at home was difficult because I'd have a few things that I felt like were safe. But there was so much else that even though I thought that, you know, it was safe, still irritated my digestive system. And I never just felt quite right. And so being able to have that information was amazing. It was just really frustrating that it took so long to finally get an answer because I had gone to multiple other Doc's before that. And many of them are like, Oh, you have irritable bowel, or, Oh, you have this and I never felt like no, that's not the answer. And a couple had given me medication. I was like, I don't need medication. I don't think there's anything really inherently wrong with me. But I'm doing something that I keep aggravating an issue, and we just need to get to that. So, you know, it was a frustrating journey. I'm really glad I stuck with it. Because it just it made it made life so much better.
Jim Moore 11:12
Yeah, absolutely. I can only imagine the doctor that you finally came across who said suggested food sensitivity tests, etc. Had the the word vegan, ever come up in that conversation at all, even even at that point where you were sort of he was telling you or she was telling you to cut out the you know, these various these various things.
Rebecca Gade-Sawicki 11:35
You know, I don't remember that the word vegan came into it, but I do remember him being very, to the point when he was like, you know, if it comes back gluten, you got to get rid of it. If it's there, you got to get rid of it. He's like, all these things are very inflammatory. So this could, you know, be you know, a couple of the big issues that you're dealing with, along with others. And I he was just very, very dead set on. If the test says it, you've got to follow through with it. And I mean, even though I paid for this, I went and asked for this. I was still reluctant in the beginning because you just You're so sad and like oh, but I really need this and you know, you don't dairy was honestly the easiest part to give up. Gluten was a whole lot harder.
Jim Moore 12:25
Yeah. I know a couple of people who are kind of gluten free and vegan and they they talk about it being a whole nother level like the veganism is easy, but there's just they like just gluten like the world is a gluten minefield. Was that was your experience?
Rebecca Gade-Sawicki 12:44
Yes, I completely concur with them. I miss gluten so much. And now since it's been I, you know, it's been four years plus, since I've had gluten. I can tolerate I can tolerate cross contamination. I can't. I can't tolerate small amounts, but to have like a giant beggar or anything like that. No, that will wreak some havoc. But my husband is a big Baker. He loves making bread, just beautiful, you know, loaves of all kinds of crusty breads. That drives me nuts. So I'll just sit there and kind of smell in our kitchen and enjoy that. And just wish that I could now like I can't understand people's love affair with cheese. But I can understand their love affair with bread.
Jim Moore 13:36
Yeah, well, me, me too. And sadly, I Well, it's good that I don't have an intolerance. Well, I assume I don't but doesn't mean I eat far too much bread. You can. Yeah, I always have this sneaking suspicion, though. That. I mean, obviously we in your particular case, there was, you know, some some quite serious kind of side effects of, of eating gluten and so on. So it was absolutely the you needed to seek advice. But I do often wonder whether, you know, the majority of the population have got more sensitivities than they, they think they have, you know what I mean?
Rebecca Gade-Sawicki 14:17
Like? Yeah, absolutely. People ask me all the time, because I know, you know, what I went through and what I've gotten rid of, I mean, now it's kind of a joke about the things that you know, I can and cannot eat, but there are other people that will come up to me after and they'll be like, okay, so I know you got rid of this, that and the other, like, how did you feel? How did you feel before? What was the difference? Because, you know, there are so many people with all kinds of digestive issues, and they're also not getting the answers. And so, you know, there have been quite a few people in some that have surprised me that have come asking for help about what did I think that they should get rid of? But honestly, I mean, I can tell them what has worked for me. But what works For me is not necessarily always going to work for somebody else. So I always suggest, try and find a doctor that will do a food sensitivity panel on you. There are also no online tests that you can send away for. I don't know how accurate they are, but they're available and they couldn't be a good starting point. Because even if you know the elimination diet was brought up to me where you eliminate like the big major things of like soy, nuts, dairy, and gluten. Even if I had done that, I still wouldn't have gotten to some of the other things like tapioca and Cara Gina and you know, lentils can also be irritating to me. And so that was only part of the puzzle. So the test really took out all of the the grey matter.
Jim Moore 15:51
Forgive my complete ignorance. Tapioca is in is it quite common ingredient? Yeah, it's
Rebecca Gade-Sawicki 15:59
quite common ingredient especially in gluten free foods. It's a starch. I mean, there's nothing really you know, evil about it or anything. It's similar to like arrow root or like a potato starch or even corn starch can be subs out afford sometimes. Places generally like to use tapioca and gluten free baking as a binder and sometimes can produce a bit of a fluffier bread or texture than some of the other starches. So it is common in that it's a common thickening agent. It's found in ice creams to protein bars, breads, like everything really I swear has tapioca in it. That was honestly, you harder than the gluten to get rid of because you just find it and a myriad of things. As all of this
Jim Moore 16:47
led you to a healthier diet. Do you feel like you've probably gone more whole foods plant based as a result? Or have you managed to weed out or find the seek out as you'd say? The the wonderful junk food?
Rebecca Gade-Sawicki 17:00
I think the balance I do find some good junk food. But I'm probably heavy am me today versus me even seven years ago. Yeah, far healthier, far more aware of what I'm putting into my body. I do try to veer more towards like a whole food plant based on it as much as possible. But you know, if play of really great nachos comes my way. Or ice cream?
Jim Moore 17:36
Well, yeah, I mean, he could resist. Absolutely. How about about your sister? Did she go along with the vegan journey with you? But she she vegan at the very beginning of this this journey when you were 13? Or was she kind of vegetarian too, and discovered her way into it?
Rebecca Gade-Sawicki 17:50
She was vegetarian for a very long time. I don't think she became vegan and how oh my goodness, it's probably been within the last five to 10 years. She was having some food issues as well. And so she did a elimination diet. And when she tried to add dairy back end, she got very, very sick. And so after that she was like, oh, no, absolutely not. And I mean, prior to that she wasn't an egg eater or anything like that. So really, it was just dairy. Yeah. And so she has been, she's been longer than I have.
Jim Moore 18:27
It's how the rest of the family reacted. So that the the pair of you this wasn't a fad at 13. This was this was a lifelong change. How have the rest of family read? So I'm just intrigued given the you say the the horse riding background, the animal agriculture that was kind of built the farming that the whole the whole piece sounds like, you know that that world? How have they responded?
Rebecca Gade-Sawicki 18:52
Yeah, that's Yeah, interesting. So I mean, honestly, I don't think that my mom thought that I would stick with it. But I mean, she didn't push it one way or the other. It was kind of like, okay, do what you want, kind of thing. I grew up with my mom. And so, you know, she worked a lot. And so I had to take care of myself most of the time. And so it was a matter of me just kind of figuring things out. There was a lot of cheeseless pizza and random veggie burgers that I could maybe find and our local grocery store. But it was really, really difficult. I mean, honestly, I think it is just my stubborn nature that really stuck me to it because I wasn't going to let anything deter me for it despite how difficult it was. I remember going to a restaurant when I was young and ordering like there wasn't a veggie burger on the menu. So I was trying to get a grilled cheese like off the kids menu, and they were like, well, you're not a kid. And I was like but you don't. You don't have a vegetarian option. And so they kind of argued with me and I was like, Fine, then give me a burger with no burger. And they were just baffled. It was like I had grown to heads. But I was just determined that I was gonna stick with this and that it mattered at that age. And, I mean, honestly, I think everyone else just thought, okay, you know, we'll let her go with it. If you if you don't, if you don't bother her, maybe she'll you know, forget about it after a while.
Jim Moore 20:29
Yeah, see, I love those places that were laid off kids menu was hilarious.
Rebecca Gade-Sawicki 20:36
I mean, surely I was still a kid. Like, what? 1514? Like you're a kid? Well,
Jim Moore 20:43
point is when you're legally not a kid, or is it when they just think you look, you don't know a kid anymore. I don't know what the stipulation is. But there we go, say Salovey. So when did the when did the love of travel kick in.
Rebecca Gade-Sawicki 20:56
So I did not travel much as a kid. I mean, we did some a little bit here on the state of Michigan. But really, I think one foray to Canada when my brother graduated college, and that was about it. I didn't actually my first time on an aeroplane and my first real trip was to see my sister when she was in college, she was studying at the University of Hamburg in Germany. And so my dad said, Okay, we gotta go visit her. And I thought, Oh, my God, I'm gonna get on an aeroplane. What is this going to be about? I was petrified. But once I got there, I thought, oh, my gosh, this is amazing. Like, all these things, all this stuff to see. And so from that point, and I was about 15, or so. From that point, I always stayed in the back of my mind that I wanted to explore places and do things that you know, were outside of the small town that I grew up in, I mean, even as much. So like, once I graduated high school, and went on to college, I didn't know what I was going to do, like so many kids that age. But I knew that I had to get out of that town. And I moved to New York for a short period of time. And so that was kind of like that with travel, I didn't know how I was going to necessarily get to these places or see them. But I just knew that one way or the other, there was a lot of this world that I needed to experience. And I was going to do it. So I would say that initial trip was kind of the spur that kicked off a lot of things.
Jim Moore 22:35
And at what point did you think, you know, I've been bitten by this bug, and then you started to imagine start to start to actually put that into action and make some trips and visit some places? Or what point did you start to think, you know, I want to write about my experiences.
Rebecca Gade-Sawicki 22:51
You know, that didn't come until much, much later. So last year, during the pandemic, like so many people, I took the time to kind of reconsider what I've been doing with my career. Where do I want to align my passions? And how am I going to leave this world? And so I kind of started thinking about, well, you know, I'd really like to work for a vegan business or a company, but how was I going to kind of repurpose the skills that I have worked on for this past 15 years or so, and make myself seem like a valid candidate to some of these places? And my husband jokingly said, Well, why don't you start a blog people are always asking you about like, what in the world do you eat? You know, the premise their idea, when I would come back from trips, people would always ask me, like, how did you start? Like, how in the world did you find food. And so I just brushed it off. And so I even brushed him off initially and thought, no, a blog, that's a crazy thing. But the more that I started to kind of think about how was I going to make this pivot, the more that the blog started to make sense, and, you know, writing about some of these things, because, you know, then I started thinking about more of that, if people really think that it was such a challenge for me to eat, when I go to Rome, or London or wherever, there are probably other people out there that are thinking the same, that, you know, it's too difficult for them, or they're never going to be able to find anything, and that's gonna just take away from any of the experience they might have. So initially, I was like, Okay, let's use this maybe as my career pivot and also as a way to help other people out there and to make this connection and show people that even if you're a vegan, even if you're gluten free, or you you have loads of weird things you're sensitive to, you can still enjoy the experience of travel and you shouldn't miss out on all of the wonderful things this world has to offer.
Jim Moore 24:50
Absolutely, absolutely. So I mean, you know, looking through the blog, there's there's a whole there's an absolute, you know, feast of kind of countries in guide that you to those countries that you visited. And so what was the, if you had to, if you had to pick the kind of, you know, the top two or three countries, from a veganism standpoint, who was the most accommodating?
Rebecca Gade-Sawicki 25:13
That's a good question. Off the top of my head, I would say, a couple of the places where I've found it to be very, very easy, has been, Berlin is great. And London is also wonderful. And then New York City. Honestly, I think in New York City, even though it's not a country, it should be kind of in its own and its own little vegan world is amazing. We recently went in July, and everything that we did was kind of centred around food of like, okay, so in the morning, we're gonna hit this spot, and then like a snack by May, by early afternoon at the start, and then we got to have lunch at this spot, because there's just so many amazing places. And it's not just like one type of vegan food is a variety of different like cultures of vegan food, you could find Whole Foods, plant based vegan food, vegan junk food, French vegan food, it is like everything in between, you will find it in New York City.
Jim Moore 26:20
Amazing, right? What's what's the kind of discovery process? How do you go about finding these places and selecting them fear, you know, your day trips out and so on, you know, we're gonna go hit this place, this place this place? What's that look like? Is it literally wandering the street seeing what's going on? Or what's the what's the process for you?
Rebecca Gade-Sawicki 26:39
Well, it depends on the place. So like, for New York City, I did a lot of investigating, prior to leaving, and just, you know, kind of reading reviews, looking at different places and their menus. And, you know, did they offer gluten free stuff is also kind of a big thing for me? Or are there things that place that people really talk about that we need to make sure that we go to so I kind of look at it from a few different angles, and just like, you know, pour over Google to find these places. Whereas then if it's a smaller place, and you know, say, I recently just came back from the Upper Peninsula here in Michigan, there are literally maybe three places where you can find me. My research is much slimmer. And then yeah, I mean, there is a little bit of wandering around too, and and examining some menus as we, you know, go through city, you know, downtown's and little shops and just seeing like, oh, maybe they actually have a special that they don't talk about on their website, or, you know, that they're not putting up on social media. So there's kind of a mixture of different ways that I go about it.
Jim Moore 27:50
Is there any kind of country this stood out? As you know, that was that was tough. I love the place. It was a great visit great trip, but from a veganism standpoint, or maybe the the senses the food sensitivity standpoint. You know, that this is this is going to be tough for you. Was there any place that stands out to you?
Rebecca Gade-Sawicki 28:09
Yeah, actually, Michigan's Upper Peninsula was that. So, I mean, I've lived in the state, pretty much all of my life, but have not spent much time in the Upper Peninsula. And, you know, oftentimes, you know, people would bring it up, it's like, it's just the, you know, beautiful place tonnes of hiking. Lake Superior is just like pristine and flawless. Like, you've got to see it. And I always thought, yeah, yeah, but what in the world am I gonna eat? The upper peninsula is dotted with a variety of small towns. And they're connected by large swaths of forest and long roads that seem to go on forever, where you don't really pass any other human life. So the mere idea of finding vegan food in these very small towns that are really, really focused on you know, fishing, or, you know, their love of hunting is not someplace that I think that I'm actually going to enjoy. But you know, COVID has really caused us to kind of slow down a little bit and to do more travel here in the US or here in the state of Michigan. And so I thought, you know, I got to check out what people are really talking about and how beautiful it really is. And so, you know, prior to leaving, I did a little bit of investigation of, you know, what could be a possibility, where could there maybe be options, and luckily, one of the towns that we were visiting does have a college there. So that did improve a little bit of the food offering so that made it better, but it's one place that I did pack a cooler of stuff. I made a lot of peanut butter and jelly sandwiches. by and you know, the other part of it that I didn't even plan for with this is that because summer is kind of coming to an end up there, that slows some of their tourism, and people kind of are trying to get back to school back to like other activities. So that makes opening hours really difficult. So there were a couple places where I was like, Okay, I know that they have a veggie burger, or I know that they have like tacos that we could make vegan, we can go there like no problem. But then getting to both of those places. The one was not open for two days while we were there. And suddenly other ones stopped serving food at 345 in the afternoon. So I was like, Oh, my gosh, I literally am going to starve up here. What am I going to?
Jim Moore 30:49
This is a bit of a correlation for you that the more the more beautiful the place almost in a way, probably because it's, you know, maybe more rural, like you say, communities, probably more based on traditional methods of acquiring food fishing, hunting. Sounds hopeful, is that is that generally how it's ours work for you, the more industrialised places that cities etc, tend to have a better offering from just from a vegan standpoint?
Rebecca Gade-Sawicki 31:20
Yeah, I would say that is generally a good way to look at, especially here in Michigan, some areas of the state, which are much more built up, and you know, where there is University and all of that, or have a lot of tourism. And generally, you don't have too much of an issue with finding, you know, food. But yeah, the further north you go, the more tricky it can be.
Jim Moore 31:49
They really can't kind of top tips for folks travelling to these places, because I think like, like you, I definitely identify with that, you know, COVID helped us look about look what's in our own backyards a little bit more. And that's actually been a, you know, for me, it's just been an amazing sort of journey of discovery really, like finding out that there's actually some things right on my doorstep that, uh, you know, beautiful places to visit. But, you know, like, like, you probably had some experiences where, you know, I'm making asides tap pass, as I would call it out of, you know, the side salad and the chips and so on fries. You know, what's your kind of top tips for folks in those situations so that they don't feel like they're missing out, but they, you know, they still want to travel these places, but they don't feel like they're missing out from a food perspective.
Rebecca Gade-Sawicki 32:36
Yeah, absolutely. Well, my first tip would be to check out, you know, my site, and you know, the travel guides, and any of that, so then I can take any of the work out of it for you. But if I don't have any content on it, you know, do a little Googling, if you find a place, my top thing for people is to make sure you pin it on your Google Map, and then download the map before you go while you're on Wi Fi or, you know, while you're still connected, so that you know, you can save some data that way. But that way, then if you lose connection, like say, going to Michigan's Upper Peninsula, where there's literally no self service, your map will still work. And you'll be able to say like, okay, my pin is over here, and I'm here like, you can still kind of get to it. And so you don't feel like great, I'm lost and now I'm hungry and I will never find this place. And if you're travelling abroad, I always tell people you have to learn a little bit of the language. I actually made little cheat sheets of phrases and different languages from like, is this gluten free to I don't eat meat or dairy or where is there a vegan restaurant so that you know that takes some of the guessing out of it too. And even if the person does speak some English trying in their language will absolutely help bridge that gap and I've always found that then that makes them want to help you more because you know you're being polite is the respectful thing to do and you know and then always pack snacks I never leave home even if you know I'm not going very far without snacks and you know if I am going far I do pack extra and you know I will find out if there is a market nearby and pop into that market when I get wherever I'm going and pick up extra things just to have on me you know like knots or peanut butter, some fruit, things like that. So you just have it you know, wherever you're staying and it's within easy access. So you know if hunger strikes you are prepared.
Jim Moore 34:48
And that you mentioned there about you know, the speaking a bit of the language I think as you know, fantastic tip for anyone but it's probably like you say probably even more essential for For for us vegan folks and certainly folks with with food sensitivities and, you know, heaven forbid somebody with, you know, allergies and so on and so forth where they really have to be able to communicate this stuff really clearly. Just thinking about from purely from a veganism standpoint, are there certain countries were that your, in your experience, almost the word vegan hasn't gone across even in the different language and describing it in the way of these are the things that I can't eat, like excluding them by almost by individually, it has been more effective if there have been countries where, you know, even necessarily the the language of veganism that wasn't necessarily translated as well.
Rebecca Gade-Sawicki 35:42
Yeah, actually, that is a really good question. We were in Costa Rica. And that was a little bit more difficult. There wasn't as widely known, I had to do a little bit more explaining with that. I'm trying to think where else you know, honestly, it comes down to like smaller places that are far more like meat intensive, that were a little bit more difficult. But most of the major cities No, it was pretty easy. I do recall one time we were in Rome, and kind of gotten off the beaten path and had found a few little shops and things. And so I asked the guy and my best Italian if there was anything that was gluten free and vegan, and he did look at me sideways. And so I tried my best to explain what in the world I meant, and we just both decided no, there wasn't anything that I could
Jim Moore 36:45
Wait, which one of you fans more more difficult to get catered for the gluten free the foods sensitivities or the vegan? The vegan aspect?
Rebecca Gade-Sawicki 36:56
You know, nowadays, it seems like it's pretty easy to find one or the other. But finding the combination of vegan and gluten free can be really challenging. Especially I for going somewhere that maybe isn't a hub of activity. The gluten free and the vegan can be really difficult and the gluten free sometimes hangs people up a little bit more. Then like if I say like no dairy is their eggs in that like people are like okay, I get it dairy and eggs. Fine. But then if I'm like gluten, and they're like, what, what do you want now? Do you want to let us wrap like come on here
Jim Moore 37:38
have you struck upon any any situations where you know struck struck gold where you've kind of you've gone to a place gone to perhaps another country and discovered a gluten free kind of vegan restaurant and just been like this is like absolutely mecca for me.
Rebecca Gade-Sawicki 37:56
Yeah, um, you know, Berlin was definitely an easier one. There were all kinds of things. I remember having a really amazing donut at a place called Brahma Bell's. They make amazing donuts. They're just beautiful. If you've never checked them out, check them out on Instagram. Just amazing. And so they have one that is vegan and gluten free. That was terrific. I think they made it with like black bean flour, something crazy that you just wouldn't think of. And so that was really great. And then it seems like what else did we have? We had some Vietnamese that was terrific. Super easy for vegan and gluten free. Oh my gosh, what else? There was an amazing breakfast place with like beautiful ici bowls and smoothies. They were just like that really. That was one place where I was like, Okay, there's more food that I want to get to then we have time for and you know, London was also a pretty easy place. For a myriad of different things. I don't remember ever having really an issue with getting around a surprising place was Belgium. Before going I thought no, I'm stuck with french fries pretty much the entire time. But there are quite a few really nice little places that had you know, either like Whole Foods, plant based kind of stuff, junk food kind of things and then there is a really great place that does vegan waffles. That is terrific. And I do believe they have a vegan and gluten free waffle. Some of the stuff I do avoid even if it is vegan and gluten free because of the use of tapioca and Europe I don't find it as often but it just depends on how how lucky I'm feeling with taking risk I do normally always pack with me like a digestive to help break down anything that could be an issue. tent, or like charcoal tabs and ginger tabs to help kind of ease any kind of aggravation. And so those do really help. So if I'm like, I really have my eye on something that I just feel like is worth the risk. I will take one of those.
Jim Moore 40:18
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely I can, I can imagine some, some things are just worth those doughnuts sounded like they were worth the risk. Just just thinking about, you know, one of the the joys of travelling and go back to my sort of omnivorous days, one of the joys of travelling is discovering local food, you know, the, the things that are traditional to the place and, you know, perhaps they're part of their heritage in that particular country or that location. As, as somebody who's travelling and is vegan and has some food sensitivities to, do you find like that aspect of the travel is is more difficult to, to kind of, you know, experience. The reason I ask is because I sometimes wonder whether, and you know, obviously I live in a in a UK bubble. But I sometimes wonder whether the, there's almost become a bit of an identikit of what vegan food is, you know that there's the Beyond Meat burgers, the impossible burgers, the you know, the sweet stuff is kind of easier to replicate the cakes and so on and so forth. So you get that kind of stuff. But it's often you know, in restaurant settings, junk food themes, you know, pizzas, burgers, chips, cakes, these kind of things. And I just wonder whether, you know, from your experience you you feel like you ever miss out on the kind of you know, what does the taste of you know, Sicily feel like or you know, what's what's food in Lisbon tastes like? Do you still get that from your experience?
Rebecca Gade-Sawicki 41:56
Yeah, I think that is a really good question. Um, there have been a few places where I'm trying to think that maybe the replication wasn't completely there. But like in Lisbon, for instance, one of their big things is a little like custard Patisserie. It's called. Oh, gosh, a Pastel de nata, I think. And so it's like a crispy little filo crust filled with a custard. It's a really, really popular thing. There's a few places that like really highlight this, that you've got to go there, they actually now have started making a vegan version of it. Which is amazing. And, you know, in Rome, if finding vegan pasta options, you know, even with their like gluten pasta, or gluten free pasta, like no issue, you know, with that, but there are a few places where you know, that there is a bit of a gap with some of the like the local cuisine, but some of it too, like even if I wasn't vegan, I'm not sure I'd ever try schnitzel. And Germany, or bratwurst. Even if I was an omnivore, you know, but then I've now started seeing vegan versions of that pop up as well, with some of those places who understand that travellers want to kind of have that connection to the destination, but they don't want the cruelty with it. They don't, you know, want it for health reasons or so on. So they've now like made this vegan version of it to appease that traveller to have that kind of experience. And I always tell people, well, you know, food is amazing. And you know, your food sensitivities shouldn't hang you up with the experience of travel, there's so much more to enjoy with travel as well to the food part of it is just one portion of it. So don't forget that you're going to be having all these other experiences to go along with it as well.
Jim Moore 44:04
100% as good to hear there are places that are starting to think about that, you know, starting to move beyond the there's the burger and actually we know what is what's what's, what's our our dishes, how do we veganize these and make sure that people experience that I think that's the so important. Yeah, absolutely.
Rebecca Gade-Sawicki 44:22
You know, I'm trying to think if there have been too many places where they're like, you know, a very specific dish. They haven't veganized in some way like even in Spain. You know, vegan pie Aya was super simple and delicious. And I mean vegan pretzels throughout Germany, you can easily get your hands on with no problem. So nowadays, you know, really not so difficult at all there is even now this is not in France, but a French family moved to New York City and started this wonderful cafe, and everything is vegan, and it is all influenced by, you know, their life from France and all typical French dishes. And so like B boy bortion Young, I probably just slaughtered them. So sorry. Um, two other types of like crepes and other French style cuisines, they have mastered all of it in a vegan way. So it's really beautiful. I mean, I never thought that I would have traditional French cuisine because of being vegan. But visiting there, like, the world was our oyster literally. Even with that they had a dish that was scallops. But their scallops were a trumpet mushroom, and they were made in some kind of vegan butter sauce, which was amazing. So I mean, times have definitely changed. Travel 10 years ago versus now it's just night and day.
Jim Moore 46:01
Can I asked you a question about getting there, because one of the experiences that I had, I haven't actually flown I don't think for about four years or so. Almost actually, since I became vegan, I think it was pretty much around that sort of period, I kind of stopped, stopped flying and hadn't really travelled much outside of the UK. But my experience before that, was certainly that, folks, I knew who were either vegetarian or vegan, but more so vegan, or and certainly same similar with with allergens, on, you know, maybe on the flight or wherever, whichever mode of transport they're using. The options were very limited in those in those spaces, you know, right. When it came to a flight, for example, you'd get a fruit salad instead of like the meal. What's your experience been like in those spaces have they moved on with with the rest of the the actual destination?
Rebecca Gade-Sawicki 46:58
Yeah, flights have gotten a little better. So generally, with a lot of my trips abroad, I flown delta delta generally always has a vegan option or it's deemed dairy free. And but it has generally in my experience, been safe. And so normally, it's something like a curry dish or a Chana Masala. And so it's been actually pretty tasty. And they always put the ingredients on top of the little packet as well, too. So you can always double check as well. The only issue with it is and I always tell people to double confirm that you've selected that vegan or dairy free meal when you book your ticket, because there was one time where I did confirm it at the beginning when I bought the ticket. But and I didn't look at it again after that, shame on me. And when I got on the flight, and we got all settled in that was great. And this was one time where I didn't pack a lot of extra food with me. And so I was like, No, it's fine. Like I got we've got the veggie meal, like we're good. And so it was for my husband and myself. And I don't think my husband at that point was a vegan. So like, there's always a vegetarian option on flights. So it's like, that's no problem. And so when she came through, and she went to hand me or asked me like, do I want chicken beef for lasagna? And I was like, No, I've got a special meal. Oh, you're not on my list. And I was like, oh, no, I better be on your list when we're gonna eat. She was like, she showed me and she felt terrible. And she's like, Okay, let me see what I can do for you. You know, we don't have any extra special meals. That's what they always call them a special meals, which is just hilarious to me. She's like, let me see what else like I can pull apart from like other dishes that we didn't use back there to like, you know, get you something. So I was really grateful that she really went above and beyond and she felt so bad. She tried to give me like extra fruit and I don't even remember what else she gave me some kind of a salad and you know, other things to like, make it work. But after that, like I always just like I will confirm it in the beginning when I buy the ticket and then like right before a week before so the flight leaves just to make sure that it is there. I think other airlines, you know, are willing to do things like that as well too. And they have options. There are some airlines that I have not flown and that there aren't too many flights from them and the states that have like very amazing vegan options. I think quantas might be one of them. I could be wrong. And so even flights now and airlines are realising like their customers are demanding more variety. It can't just be your standard chicken bed or chicken beef for you know cheese lasagna anymore. And you know, that's really that's really improved even more One time, I think it was a morning flight. Got a vegan yoghurt. I don't remember the the airline but they had given me a vegan yoghurt. And then at lunchtime there was like a vegan putting option that I got to is like my tree. I was like, Alright, now we're getting better.
Jim Moore 50:19
Yeah, that's such a great top tip does to confirm sounds simple, but actually, I think that's that's where I've heard people get caught out with before and to your experience, what can what can they do on a on the flight they they've only got what they've what they've brought with them. So they've got to cobble something together. And that's inevitably going to be probably a dry bread roll, and a plate of melon or something. Probably about it. If you're lucky, which if you're on a long flight is you know, not ideal. Hopefully you've you've packed your snacks in your, in your hand luggage.
Rebecca Gade-Sawicki 50:59
Yeah, I will say we did fly from Detroit to Hawaii a couple years ago. And so prior to like, you know, getting getting close to the flight time or whatever. I just thought, Okay, this is an extremely long flight. It's about nine hours and total, like they should feed you on there. And so I remember I went on there to like, confirm the meals. And there was no confirmation. It was just you could buy food. And the food that you could buy was like, chips, a ham sandwich, and I don't remember what else I was like, in the world is this. And so I even sent them a message. And I was like, Hey, I'm going to be on a really long flight. Like, where's the food? And they're like, well, because it's still considered a continental US flight. We don't feed you. And I was like, Oh, good, Lord. And so anyway, now was Yeah, with no food. I mean, listen to me whine about it, like this is not even
Jim Moore 51:56
very first world. But at the same time, I struggled to go nine minutes.
Rebecca Gade-Sawicki 52:02
So in that case, right, we did make peanut butter and jelly and take them on. And like our security here. TSA is totally fine with bringing food through security. I am normally look like the crazy snack lady when I go through security. And oftentimes now I kind of enjoy it because it always strikes some kind of a conversation with the security guys. So I have learned that multiple security guys like their significant others are gluten free or trying to be more plant based. And they're really curious about like this protein bar that I have, or, you know, this other thing I have in here, and where did I buy it? And so it's almost kind of been a small way of like trying to help people or even a little bit of activism to be like, Oh, look at my bag. Go ahead. And let's talk about
Jim Moore 52:55
that is probably the most unique form of activism, I think, on the podcast today. So I love it single handedly converting TSA workers and their families. Fantastic. You should definitely put that on the blog. I think that is as like your strap line. Accreditation. That's fantastic. What's the response been like to the to the blog since since he last obviously launched? In trying times COVID, etc? How are people responding to it?
Rebecca Gade-Sawicki 53:27
You know, at first, I was a little quiet and I thought, oh, no, what did I get myself. But I really had to take a step back and think, okay, just like me, nobody's really travelling a whole lot, I need to use this time to kind of make a plan to work on content to figure out what people are going to be wanting in the future. And you know, to update other things, and to make this be a great like one stop vegan travel planning sharp. And so, you know, once I kind of shifted my mindset with that, you know, other things started to fall into place. And then you know, slowly but surely now as the world's opening up, and you know, I'm connecting with other people and talking about possibilities. People are like, This is so great. I didn't know that. Like there would be options, and you know, X town or that you know, this existed or you know, that I could find like all these amazing ice cream options. I've even had people reach out and say, Hey, what are your suggestions? I'm going to Cleveland or wherever. So that's been really nice to that, you know, people are actually paying attention. I guess that's always the thing. We wonder when we're doing stuff like this. Are we just screaming into an abyss or are people paying attention? I
Jim Moore 54:44
certainly wonder that a lot.
Rebecca Gade-Sawicki 54:48
So when I get feedback like that with people who are like this is amazing tip or can you help me with x? And I'm like, Okay, it's working. And I've even had people who are not vegan, who have said You know, I really want to like, look at some of these restaurants that you're mentioning because your pictures are amazing. Like, that's vegan food. Oh my gosh, like, I didn't think that like you're slowly making me rethink what I'm putting in my mouth. And so I mean, that's really great too.
Jim Moore 55:18
Yeah, well, I'm not surprised because the site's incredible the the Insta is mouthwatering and beautiful with it with with the the visits as well. So I'm not surprised you're getting traction with it. And I think it's only going to grow and grow. There's lots of thankfully, I think we're, we're growing our population is growing and, and people are more curious and and I think everybody now like even if they're not vegan has a vegan, it feels like they have a vegan friend of vegan relative somebody that they're travelling with. So I'm not surprised it's going well, more power to you. That Rebecca has been incredible chatting with you. I've really really enjoyed it. I've learned loads and learnt loads from the blog. So thank you for creating it. And like I say more power tea. Where would folks go to check this stuff out? Let's, let's make sure we tell everybody where to head to
Rebecca Gade-Sawicki 56:11
Sure. So you can visit the site by going to veggies abroad.com Or follow along on Instagram or Facebook at veggies abroad.
Jim Moore 56:20
Amazing. I will make sure we get all of that in the show notes as well so folks can can click on and and visit you but thank you so much for your time. It's been great chatting and hopefully we'll be here and say
Rebecca Gade-Sawicki 56:33
thank you for having me.