Jamal Le Doux

Jim Moore 0:43

Hello, my name is Jim, this is my podcast, the bloody vegans you're very welcome to each week I'll be travelling ever deeper into the world of veganism discovering along the way, a multitude of viewpoints from the political and ethical to the practical. I'll be doing this through a series of conversations, each aiming to further illuminate my understanding, and hopefully yours, of all things plant century and this week is no different. The keynote he had, I should say I was going to take a night, the keen ear amongst you will notice that the theme music was slightly different this week. That is because that was the latest single from this week's guest Jamal do former pro boxer and musician Jamala do I'll tell you a little bit more about Jamal in a moment. But that was his latest single, you can hear the full version of it as the at the end of the podcast. So do hang on for that. The full version of go vegan, his latest single is as featured there. Let's get on to a little bit of the usual podcast admin that you've become accustomed to if you're a regular listener. If you'd like to support the podcast through a number of means you can do firstly via Patreon. So if you would like to head over to the Patreon website or Patreon app search for bloody vegans podcast, there are a number of different ways you can support the podcast and receive some rewards very exciting. You can also head over to Apple podcasts if you're a subscriber there. And there is a built in subscription service that is 99 per month that will allow you to gain access to episodes in advance and some bonus content that will be available soon. All kinds of other bits and pieces. All very exciting indeed. And if you'd like to support for free, you can't just tell a friend about the podcast, share it on social media, or indeed leave a five star review on your podcast provider of choice. All of those things help immensely. Thank you so much in advance and thank you to those wonderful people who are already doing those things or have done them. Thank you. I truly truly appreciate it. So Jamala do. Jamal is a former pro boxer. For boxing fans amongst you. You will recognise the name from the recent Chris Eubank Jr. Fi Jamala do was on the undercard of that fight on live on Sky and box office, which was awesome. And what was amazing in that, and I love this about Jamal on his boxing shorts, and not only the colours of the vegan flag, but they also have vegan written across the front. And it sparks so much discussion and so much debate. He really does. Where is ethics literally on the front of his shorts. We talk a little bit about that in the episode. But Jamal is also a musician. And a fantastic one at that. As I mentioned earlier, you're going to hear the full version of his single go vegan at the end of this podcast. So do do tune in for that. But it's also available on Spotify, Apple podcasts, all those sort of places search for Ladue led, oh, you you and you can find that track and also many of his others. And there's loads more to come. I think he's got single that he sort of mentions that might be coming up pretty soon. And he's a little cagey about the exact date but super excited about that as well. So let's get into the conversation, shall we? So without further ado, here's a conversation between me and your wallet guy give me a reason

Jamal, It would be awesome to get started with a little bit of your journey out into the world of boxing rather than vegans. I'd like to start with that. That's okay.

Jamal Le Doux 4:42

Yeah, let's go for it. And so yeah, how I got into boxing. And when I was in high school year 11 I sort of always getting into fights at school. And then I wasn't really that sporty. I like me football. So I played football and I was into music. And then so I went college, I went to study music technology, and a lot of it to be up to know God, smoking, drugs, stuff like that. So I was in amongst all of it. And like, say I was street fighting, I ended up like getting injured and hitting my knuckles. And like, my mom was getting a bit annoyed and agitated with me. So my brother was into football as well. And he was like, the well behaved. So is seven years older than me. So at the time, I'm like, 1617 is a bit older. He's been playing football for a bit, and then he decided that he's always wanted to get boxing ago. Okay, so the the gym that I've always fought for, because I've always stayed at the same gym that had just opened at the time. And so my brother went along, and he started boxing. And then my mom was like, Oh, well, why don't you take teach him off because I was like to know God, and just to see if I'd like it or not, before that I wouldn't take it. And then as soon as I got there, it was really hard. I remember going on the run on the fear session. And I was left behind. And they like literally overlap me. And it but but no, I enjoyed it. And then I want to go back straight away. So and then the more I started going, the more I started, like stopped I'm going around with certain people stop fighting and stops drinking and smoking and things like and yeah, like because I had the connection when we brought here. So it was easy for me to start sparring straightaway. A lot of people when they go into a gym, it takes forever for the start sparring before to get the fierce fight. So yeah, with me probably now is easier for me to get in. And I was kind of a natural to it. So yeah, I started spying on my fear spot before I knew it. And then yeah, that's how it started. Really, it's an amateur boxer. Along with an amateur boxer for say I started amateur boxing when I was 17. And I think I finished when I was about 25. A few gaps in between from injuries and things like that. So but yeah, I've been I've been going for it for about eight years as an amateur. And then what happened was, I had surgery on Minako. Because the injury, the injury that I was talking about when I was younger, when I got injured was on the hand, I broke my knuckle. And then because of my knuckles were out to line. Every time in boxing, I was competing, and then the amateurs you don't really wrap up as well as you're doing the professionals. So my knuckles are out to line. And every time was punching, a lot of the force was going on to one side and my knuckles. So I ended up damaging my knuckles even more. So I type surgery. And then that took me out for about two years. And then I decided because I was about like 26 2017 I decided right? I'm going to give professional boxing ago rather than going back to amateurs. So yeah, and then I've been pro now for the last like three four years. Wow. So yeah, in a nutshell that that's it really. I got started

Jim Moore 8:17

looking back your younger self when you're 1617 you first walked into that boxing gym? I can imagine it must have felt like a bit of an intimidating environment. I don't know. But you know, when did you first kind of realise this is for me was it was it pretty instant? And what was it that you think made you made you feel like that?

Jamal Le Doux 8:41

I'd say the the enjoyment was instance. So taking a liking to boxing was very instant from that fear session, I liked the challenge of like going on and run or being on the pads and and the coaches shouting at you saying you can do more, etc. And the fitness side of it. I didn't really know where it was gonna go. I didn't know if I would compete and fight. I wasn't really thinking that when I first started, but I just really enjoyed it. And then by the time like I saw my progression compared to some of the overloads I'd realised that I was progressing really well and really quickly. So then instantly within a week or so I thought I'm actually quite good at this. And then and then I could see from like the coach game inspiring like me, that is gonna probably get me fighting soon because a lot of the overlaps were fighting and competing at the home shows and stuff like that. So yeah, I'd say it was more or less instance. And it is a bit intimidating, but I think because I had my brother there. Yeah. Yeah, and he's older that helps a lot more. So it is hard fear for youngsters to get in boxing because there's loads of different variety reasons of why they might have barriers on stuff and getting into boxing, whether that's a, I don't know that intimidated or get finding travel to get there or wherever it's because in boxing you do have, obviously your regulars and you have like people that have been there for ages. And they're sort of stars that are fighting week in week out. And for someone just come along, you've got to be committed and dedicated and show, you can't just turn up on one because a lot of people do come and go. So you've got to show the coaches that you are committed and that you are going to stick to it. So and I think I showed that as well, because my brother told the coach, what I was up to. And I'd shown that like, I was serious about taking on boxing because I think he saw me attitude. And he saw that I was getting fitter, and I was leaving the stuff that I was doing outside I was leaving that behind. So

Jim Moore 11:03

apart things like nutrition, you know, when you when you first got into it, how long was it before you started to think about what you were kind of eating? You know, you mentioned obviously, the drinking and smoking and those obvious things kind of they went by the wayside fairly quickly, once you realised you were pretty good at this and was starting to get better. But what about like thinking seriously about your nutrition?

Jamal Le Doux 11:26

I think at the stage I was at at the time, I wouldn't think about adding nutrition. So I'd beat in junk, be in packet, a Chris biscuits, all sorts all day, just as you do sort of thing at that age. And I think boxing straightaway got me to think that, right? You can't just binge on junk food and stuff like, so I was eating whatever my mom was feeding in and obviously speak to my mom and say I need to eat healthier, blah, blah. But at the same time, I didn't really have a clue when I first started boxing, about nutrition and about health. And like the journey I've come on is it's come a long way to where I'm at now. So I'd say within the first couple of years, I'd say that lie. Yeah, wasn't really focused on over the last what I've just said I wasn't really focused on on what I exactly needs to be eating, it was just the case of eat my mom's meals, and then just just yeah, just trying to get him to to advise me into whatever she gives me. But then eventually, I moved up in weight. And when I first started boxing as an analogy, I was quite small. And yeah, I'd moved up in weight. And I think because I didn't have a clue about nutrition. I moved up to light heavyweight, and really for my size, I should have been a middleweight. And that's why I started as a middleweight. But I just couldn't keep the weight. So there was this, I never forget this tournament that I went in, in Sweden. And that was my first fight and let light heavyweights and the guy that they put me in with like, like Mike Tyson compared to me, because I was tiny and he was absolutely massive. And so then after that fight, I started realising that, like, I even need to pull Corp in the light heavyweight division or I need to get down. So I started looking into ways I could lose weight. And basically, I started doing like no carbs and stuff like that, which I look back at now. And I think was stupid. But at the time, I didn't have a clue. So yeah, I used to like just start eating salads and try and cut out all carbs. For all that's the right way of cutting weight. And then eventually I grew. So I grew naturally into the light heavyweight division as a not as an amateur. Right. So then, yeah, I started becoming more health conscious. And just, I didn't know what it was. But in the back of my mind, I just started like saying to myself, I need to stop eating red meats, I need to stop eating stuff like like pork, I cut out all that. So I was just say eating fish and in checking. And then I started cutting out dairy. And so yeah, I was like more health conscious that way. And I was feeling better for it. And I couldn't answer why I did that. But it must have just been in the back of your conscious. Yeah. So I started doing that. And then eventually, as I was doing that by myself, I am when I had my first loss as a professional, and I was I was like really devastated by that face loss. And so I started looking into like ways I can improve not just because I knew I was good, technically in the gym. I knew everything I was doing in the gym, I was putting in the hours. I'm technically God's and I was thinking it's more outside what I'm doing and more mentally. So I started looking at mindfulness and things like that come across him. A guy named Ralph smart. I don't know if you're familiar with Have him. Yeah, he's a big YouTuber and is all about mindfulness. And basically, although he didn't go on about veganism, he never mentioned it. It always mentioned and it's important what you're eating, regardless of any type kind of mind, mindfulness you do if you don't put the right feelings in your body, then you're not going to perform well, you're not going to be feeling well. So were you always used to mention that and that I think that stuck with me and used to the kind of foods used to mention were fruits and vegetables and things like that. And, yes, that stuck with me. So then I was still on that path of reducing, like meats I was eating and things that are in dairy products and blah, blah. And then

I watched Cowspiracy and before that, I'd watch what the health but what the health didn't do nothing for me, I, I didn't change or didn't think of anything I just carried on as I was. But after Cowspiracy instantly, it just made me think right, I'm going vegan and I don't know, if it's because of I think it's because of the how it shows what the food industry is doing to the climate and, and into the air. So I think that's what resonated with me and made me want to change straightaway. And at the time, it was I think, I've been thinking about two and a half years now. So this January would be three years. And so yeah, two years ago, that a new year, I had prep meals, because as you do is your New Year's resolution, right? I'm gonna eat healthy I'm gonna go proper strict on yourself. And I had loads of prep meals and they had like fish in the ad, blah, blah. And it did absolutely Minson as well. So it although it wasn't vegan, I was still favourite going that way. And I just said to myself, right, I'm gonna chalk all these away, I offered it to me more. I think she had a few and then ended up chucking some away and said, I'm going to make all these prep meals vegan and ever since I haven't looked back. And I've made like one or two mistakes, but down the way. But yeah. Wow, that's our got into basically,

Jim Moore 17:07

it's fascinate fascinating that it wasn't, I mean, obviously there was, like you say you kind of had this gut feeling almost this intuitive sense that you needed to start reducing meat and dairy, before you even kind of came across veganism. But it's fascinating that the thing that tipped you over the edge was actually a bigger picture point. It wasn't necessarily about your specific health, but the wider world and then the State of the Climate and so on so forth in the impact of animal agriculture. I think that's particularly kind of fascinating. When you when you then applied that to, you know, your prep meals and so on. Was there initially a bit of a sense of, Well, I kind of knew that I needed to lose some of this stuff. But is this going to affect me negatively? Did you at any point sort of start to fear that at the beginning of the journey,

Jamal Le Doux 17:51

yeah. 100%. So like I say, at the start, it was more about health and the climate change and stuff like that. So morally, I wasn't thinking about animals or anything. And so I told myself that if this affects my boxing, at the time, I said to myself, I'm not going to do this, this is when I first started to do it. So yeah, so I'm thinking, I'm going to try it for a month and see how it goes. And I remember in the first three weeks, sort of my whole body like it's like you go through I don't know what to call it, but it's like, like you go cold turkey or summit from eating loads of animal products, and then as soon as you take them away, my whole in my body, like I just remember my body always rumbling and making noises and stuff like that. But then after three weeks, I think my body just took to it and then I just, I didn't know I just started loving it and I felt that my stamina was getting better. I was feeling fitter, faster. And when when I did turn vegan the first fight I had with was for the Midlands title. I stopped him in the sixth round and then my next two fights are stopped them as well. So ad free on the row webs stopped him. So it showed that it didn't have a negative effect and it was only positive. So yeah, that was definitely in the back of my mind and but now at the space I'm in now morally, I'd think to myself even if it would have an effect on me boxing, I'm strong enough believe in veganism that I wouldn't catch still still be vegan.

Jim Moore 19:39

Wow. So the rest of the kind of you know, often people say this then they come for the health or come for the climate stay for the animals did the to the kind of the the plight of of non non human animals come into your focus fairly quickly after after those initial health and environmental issues?

Jamal Le Doux 19:59

Yeah, definitely. because when I started searching on YouTube and undernet about because at first it would have been of what type of foods to eat, and then you get recommended certain videos like Joey carb strong or Eflin ad, so I started watching loads of different videos of them watch more documentaries. And so yeah, he was pretty instant, like, of what we're doing to actual animals is pretty messed up sort of thing. And that just clicked with me instantly. And that just made me fear of fall in love with it with wanting to be vegan. So, yeah.

Jim Moore 20:40

And all the coaches and perhaps other Exuma pro at this point. So what were the other pros, the other coaches, what were people kind of saying to around? Did they think you were, you know, you'd gone a bit crazy going for this route.

Jamal Le Doux 20:56

I don't think the dead because I think they know me as a person. And I'm not a type of person that will just rationally just do wild things. So I think the trust trusting and me and me and and when they saw my performances, then they couldn't point to veganism say say it's because because it veganism whatever it's having a budget by the fact so at first like I was all just given its praises and Chai recommend it to everyone and I think a may have planted a seed and some people and some people be just carry on in their lesson might be down. You never know it might be down the line. But yeah. I think deep down they didn't know it's the right thing. And they know that it does have definitely a benefits massive benefits because they've seen for me so I think we're when people around me it's more so the convenience and more so than not knowing. And yeah, so be I was once that person, so I know how it feels. And yeah,

Jim Moore 22:16

well you you know if you think back if you'd have come across somebody in the boxing gym, your local boxing gym who'd said I've gone vegan would you have been sceptical if you think back?

Jamal Le Doux 22:28

I think so. Well, I had a friend who was he didn't call himself vegan boy, he practically was vegan when we were in high school. So I think it was in Year 11. And he basically is non pasty in a Damian Marley reggae album. And ever since he loved the album so much, he started getting listening into reggae music and into reggae music. And so, because he loved the music so much, and he loved the culture, it started like listening to what they're actually saying. And following their way. So we started like falling there, what the what the eight and stuff like, and once I think he caught he was pescatarian at first and then from pescatarian, he stopped eating fish. And he was just all plant food. Food basically. But he didn't call himself a vegan. And I used to always kind of at the time, not teasing a little bit, but just whining, not from loads of questions. But in but he didn't have the the answers for what what I would have now, if that makes sense. So he, I think he just got annoyed with with me asking and asking. And then we'd end up arguing and probably fall out or something. But I think, yeah, he he just listened to music. And he just followed that way. So he didn't really have the answers in terms of like morally because the animals or the health benefits or Yeah, I mean, the climate, the climate benefits, so he didn't have the answers for me. So I think if he did, I think I'd be more inclined to, to to change but because like he didn't i Obviously I don't blame him or what whatever. But yeah, I think it just depends for me, who was saying it and what they're actually saying. Yeah, at the time. And but I do think I definitely think it's a process. So I think me going on that journey as I've just explained previously. I think that is the reason how I got to where I got to now. Whereas when I was younger, right in the thick of it at the start, maybe I wouldn't be so inclined to listen. So yeah, it's a tricky one. But

Jim Moore 24:46

yeah, as I said, I would have said thinking about like your your your pro career and forgive my ignorance but the the switch from amateur to pro taught me through that. How does that happen? In the world of boxing.

Jamal Le Doux 25:04

So it can happen a few ways. You can get picked up by someone. So there's a lot of amateurs, big amateurs that have either been the Olympics, or the well known and they've won, say the open National Finals. And they'll get picked up by a promoter like matchroom boxing, like, say, Eddie Hinn or or Frank Warren. Because that fire has won so much. They've got a massive following. And a bit like, you know, I mean, Anthony, Joshua started how he won the goals, and the Olympics in 2012. Basically, that was easy for him just to walk in any door he wanted. And he'd have loads of deals at speed sort of thing. So if you've got that, that is obviously the best way for them. Someone like me, you would after? Yeah, have basically someone there who could be your promoter, trainer and manager, and then you sign a contract with them. Whereas I had Scott Lawton, who is already on Gemma was chaining us. You've got you've got the amateur side and you've got the professional side at that gym. Whereas a lot of amateur gyms, you don't have a professional side. So they were the amateur boxers there. If they wanted to turn pro did they have to go look somewhere else? So yeah, with what you have to do with the board is the boxing, British boxing board, you have to basically get your licence. And to be able to do that if you're already an amateur, like I was myself, and if I quite a lot of fights is a bit easier. So yeah, have a meeting with the board, the asking those questions. And then they basically consider whether you you're legit to go pro. But say if you haven't had any fights, then they might come watch your spa, and then see if you're able to turn and then you have to have your medical every year, which is like brain scan. It's a blood tests and I test things like it's not cheap. It's pretty expensive. So yeah, if you're not got like big sponsors big, then it can be hard to manage. And that's why I work at the same time because I haven't got I've got some sponsors which have helped me tremendously, but I think we've COVID hitting. Yeah, that sort of yeah, that stopped the role of sponsors in Yeah. We've not been a proper full time box had been able to financially I like to work a lot alongside Yeah, yeah.

Jim Moore 27:40

Recently your most recent fight was on the undercard of the Eubank Jr. Fight on Sky Sports, which which must have been awesome was that well, your first kind of televised mainstream national fight?

Jamal Le Doux 27:55

Yeah, it not terrifies but is my fears mainstream? Yeah. Yeah. It's an amateur. It was televised when I went in there. Harringay box. Yeah. And that was pretty a big show as well. But yeah, this one's the biggest I've been on and like, it's sort of give me a little insight to what it's like to box on the biggest shows. Being on SkySports and boxer series. So yeah.

Jim Moore 28:22

Did you find you suddenly got quite a bit more exposure? You know, when you when you were on? SkySports? You know, people reaching out and things like that?

Jamal Le Doux 28:29

Yeah, definitely. had run random strangers had loads more followers. Yeah, I add people on the bottom of veganism. People saying, oh, there's a vegan boxer on TV and things like are people that I know that usually wouldn't stop me from day to day when I see him in the streets. And then because I'm on Sky Sports like oh, you're you're fighting on Sky Sports. Yeah, and I think with my personality, I probably could have got more if I was a bit more outspoken but because I'm not I'm fairly reserved, I think. Yeah, I didn't really capitalise on that. But that's not me. Anyway. So yeah.

Jim Moore 29:17

I mean, you've literally you know, put your put your ethics on your shorts, you know, you mentioned it earlier, you've got you know, vegan is front and centre on your on your boxing shorts. And you made and I asked that and it's funny you mentioned that I asked about the reaction because I mean, I was on Twitter the night of the fight and there was lots of to and fro about lots of discussion around the vegan point for you as a boxer both good and as you can imagine some people not supporting because of it which I find a bit bizarre but people are strange. Was Was there a you know, did you have to weigh that decision up in terms of making that decision to be, I'm going to be upfront and I'm going to say who I am and so on. Or were you were you kind of always dead set on that path

Jamal Le Doux 30:08

set on it as soon as I did in my head. Instant, but it will say, for that Midlands title, that was the first time I fought in those shorts. And yeah, I suppose that's when I first turned vegan. And during the build up when I had the idea, I just thought, yeah, I'm going to work these on the shorts and just go for it. And I don't really care what what anyone else thinks. And so yeah, I was I was set on the idea straightaway, and even like, the fights down the line, so knowing that this fight was on SkySports I've got over shorts I can wear, but I was like, now I'm wearing the shorts and just make the world know, make everyone know 100% 100%

Jim Moore 30:50

I love that. I love that. You're gone. You do about say,

Jamal Le Doux 30:54

I was gonna say like, because obviously, if you lose a lot of points, and say yeah, or C shouldn't be big any loss, blah, blah, but I don't care. Yeah.

Jim Moore 31:07

Yeah. 100%. Good on you. I thought it was an incredible statement to kind of make and put out there and why not? Absolutely. Thinking about the the Vegan Society. Obviously, you've been working with the Vegan Society recently on their vegan and thriving campaign. Tell us a little bit about how you kind of got involved in that.

Jamal Le Doux 31:28

Yeah, so they reached out to me when I made the song, the Go VM. And, yeah, they just wanted to do an interview with me and they put me in their magazine. So they did a little write upon me and just asked me so how I got into veganism, how I got into boxing and how the two sort of mixed so yeah, they're doing tremendous work and ever since then, like they've been basically following my fights and, and like basically doing the backing of each Mr. Fight and yeah, just following my journey, and just getting my message out there my story, along with many, many other vegans, so it's a great thing that they're doing and all the other stories that they're doing from from other people. It's just inspiring to, to read and to watch. And it makes it makes me want to do more. Yeah. So

Jim Moore 32:32

tell us about the song. You mentioned the song. I'd love love to hear about your music and how you kind of got into that.

Jamal Le Doux 32:39

So as I was saying to you at the start before boxing, it's studied music technology, at college. And in school, we used to have a little a little crew and a demolition crew. So we just did did it as a hobby, just yeah, just made lyrics in point of over a copyright copyrighted beats. And, but I started taking a bit more serious and they're my friends, they were just seen as a laugh. So I carried on. And then I started learning how to make beats and make music myself authentically. So then I went College, learned more there. And then ever since I've just been, like, collecting equipment at home and building my home studio to be able to do it myself. Because I always prioritise boxing. So I just fought music, I'll do it as a hobby job. And like say, yeah, just keep building on on the equipment forgot to improve my music and because the experience of adding music, it's hard to rely on people, especially if you're not paying them a lot of money. It's hard to rely on people to do music videos to do a studio time and things like that. So I just thought fair, just be independent and just do everything by myself. So I do all the music videos myself do the beats the music myself, it's all composed, composed by me. And so yeah, and it's just such a love just a hobby that I love doing. So it's decided, like put it out there on YouTube on Spotify, Apple music and stuff like that. And I suppose with the journey I've taken sort of become more more conscious and music whereas when I was younger it used to be about anything and about violence and just about rubbish basically. Talking Jeopardy sport Yeah, now, I won't try and start talking about things that matter. So that's why I made the GO GO VEGAN song and my last one I did the Black Lives Matter song and yeah, I'm gonna be working on on some more tunes,

Jim Moore 34:56

that those two singles in particular this this year, both both in 20 21 Just, I just think a fantastic so in a great work and, and again, like you putting your ethics, your your values like front and centre, not only with your boxing but with your, with your music too. And I just thought, you know, more power to you is just incredible. Thinking about the, you know, in both in both sort of subjects. There's obviously this, this theme of oppression, systemic, systemic, systemic racism in the in the one song and then we're obviously with with speciesism and we're talking about that those kind of oppressions there. You know, I've often spoken to people, and I'm of this viewpoint as well, who would talk about these things being intersectional, that actually the, the there is the same, the same kind of hand that tips the scales, if you like, in what for one, whether it's in this case, species, whether you're talking about veganism, also as tipping the scales for other groups, whether you're talking women, people of colour, you know, whoever it may be, would you say that that's kind of how you sort of your view of the world? Or do you think it is more nuanced than that? Yeah,

Jamal Le Doux 36:13

I think I can't remember who it was that that said, this in a video, which always stood with me is that from a young age, kids are taught to love a dog, but then to eat, and treats whatever, like a pig, chickens and cows a certain way. So we're taught instantly from kids, that even though it's an animal, but it's still a bean that suffers and feels and experiences life like we do, and lots of ways we are taught that. Surely, if we're taught to treat one thing differently to the over it and not equal, even though the equally feel and experience the same, then surely that translates to how we treat humans and in and other people, because they may be different, and the colour of the skin or their features may look different. And it's no different with animals the way we see and treat them. So I feel from a young age, we are taught this and it's embedded within us. And I definitely think it's all linked from the top to the bottom. I feel like people we were the ones who have the power. And we're the ones who are in control of our own actions. And I think the people at the top who make money off, say the food industry and stuff like they're only capitalising on opportunities that they've got. So I think that the power is within within us, I think the more that we people like yourself that are doing amazing work to, to push the message is only going to get a benefit and and I see it as an evil is Yeah. Conquered evil. Yeah.

Jim Moore 38:13

No, I agree. I agree. And I think you're absolutely right, that I think it's a line in, in your, in your song black lives matter that we talk about. No one's born to view people differently in this way, you know, that the we're kind of born with a purity if you like, and that of the way we see others, we see everybody is equal. But with all these things, and I think you're absolutely right. A lot of these are social constructs that we have to pull down. You know, every one of us within this in society does say, again, thanks for calling it out in such an articulate way in your music.

Jamal Le Doux 38:50

Thank you, I feel like it we're not you don't. In school, we're so distracted by other things that we're taught, we're not really taught this sort of top topics. Feel like we're distracted by what goes on in life, whether it's money, whether it's chasing the next brand of clothes, chasing the next car, a house, got a lot going on in life, and if you don't like just step back, and just look at the big bigger picture, you can it can kind of suck you in, and a lot of it is greed and it's it's wanting the next thing wanting more and more but a lot of it doesn't bring you happiness. So I think veganism mindfulness and even minimalism as well. I think all them at link together and can only benefit the human race. Because I think minimalism a lot of things we've got we just simply don't need and it's an it's just greed basically. And it's, it never brings happiness, you're always wanting more More than material things will never bring happiness whatsoever. And I think that that can cure that minimalism. Like, I'm saying that well, I have got quite a lot of materialistic things. But over time with me looking into minimalism, it has helped me, it has made me like, try and spend less, it has made me try and just give a lot to charity and all my wardrobe, just empty some of the stuff I don't need, and give it to people that will need it a lot more more than me. And yeah, try and reduce the amount of things that I'm buying and the needless things that I do buy. Yeah. So those three are interlinked as well.

Jim Moore 40:43

Yeah, it was, it is a system, isn't it? You know, we're all we're all in a system. And it's a you know, it's a capitalist system that contains all manner of oppressions. And it stands to keep everybody where they are, and keep wanting more, and so on and so forth. That's kind of how it works. So when people start to think outside of it, it does. I think they do have a bit of a an awakening moment, almost thinking, you know, what, what am I doing? Why am I chasing these things? Or why am I animals? Or why do I feel a certain way about somebody who you know, my neighbour, or whatever it is, I think it's, it's interesting how you go down one route, and then you start to be open to other things, you know, certainly I have,

Jamal Le Doux 41:28

yeah, definitely. 100%. And just stuff like as well, I used to care a lot about what people thought I used to always be bothered in, always, like trying to please people. But now I just, just not bothered, just, it doesn't bother me in the slightest. And I felt like that that's made me become a much happier person. Yeah. And I think without even going on, you need that because the like, mental health is on the rise. And it's like at the highest it's ever been. So I think it is important to stay grounded and level headed. And what if you don't know how to do these things, and Jeremy, lonely, just just get worse, if you can't cure it. So

Jim Moore 42:19

yeah, 100%, I want to turn back a little bit to nutrition in boxing for a second, I want to pick up on a point you made way back when you're talking about when you first started to try and cut weight, when you were going from light heavyweight, back down to middle weight, and so on, and thinking about getting rid of carbs. And you now look back at that, and think what was auditioning. That's quite a popular viewpoint that kind of like reduce carb, don't eat carbs, carbs are evil, this kind of thing is quite a popular viewpoint in modern culture. You know, you see it all over social media and YouTube and stuff like this, you know, the, there's the carnivore diet and all these kind of crazy things that are going on. For, you know, as an athlete, thinking about your relationship with carbs, what advice would you have for folks who are perhaps thinking about going down those kind of routes,

Jamal Le Doux 43:13

I'd say, 100%, eat your carbs, you need carbs, slow, slow, larice, slow, release carbs is well recommended. So stuff like your rice, your whole wheat pastas, and things like that porridge that's going to last throughout the day, rather than having short release carbs where it's going to rise up and then dropped straight back down. So yeah, definitely, you need to carb for your energy, big source of energy. If you've not got carbs in you, then you're not gonna have no energy, and you need energy to burn off, especially in sports like boxing. So yeah, it's very, very, very important. And to lose weight, you need energy and you to be able to lose the weight when you're when you're training. So, if you, if your body hasn't gotten off into being off, you're not not going to lose the weight as much as you think, like people have got this ideas I need to eat least as possible. And I need to stay off carbs because they're heavy or whatnot. But funnily enough, your body doesn't actually weight like, the more carbs you eat, then you're able to burn it in training and you will lose the weights. Like for me when I turn vegan, the weight is shredded off just like that. And I was eating loads of carbs. So yeah, I'd say stuff that stores on your body like fatty things. There is no good for words. When I come off dairy and come off milk, and because as I've said to you before, when I come off Daddy was just milk so I was just drinking Alpro and stuff like that. But eventually when a convenient I'd stopped obviously eating like chocolate bars and stuff that's ending gradients, slight Yeah, where it's got milk in or, like cakes and things like that. So when I completely cut it out, then I noticed a big drop. Yeah, anyway, it's

Jim Moore 45:12

about getting enough, you know, getting enough calories for somebody like yourself. I mean, this is probably not applicable to people not training as hard as you are, but you're thinking about it on the build up to a fight. You're training, what, three, four different types of sessions in a day, sometimes a running, Skip, maybe a spar session, weight training, all these kind of these things in in one day. That's I imagine that the calorie load is huge. Yeah, one thing that that folks, particularly folks who are trying to follow a more nutritionally balanced kind of whole food plant based kind of diet, do find is that making enough calories almost is a challenge. Have you ever you found that and have you had any kind of shortcuts to make sure you get the right amount?

Jamal Le Doux 45:59

Well, when I first started, I was obviously new to it being vegan. And when we prepped meals, I wasn't sure how big to make the sizes of the meals. But eventually, with trial and tribulation sort of thing. I sort of found that I could eat a lot more now. And I probably wasn't eating enough. So I could eat as much as I want, basically, until my until my body tells me that. Okay, if you've had enough now, I think a lot of it is not as hard because I'm no nutritional experts. But I think a lot of it isn't as complex and as hard as a lot of people make out. I think if you if you listen to your body, your body tells you when it's hungry, and when it's not. And obviously, when you're training, you've also got a lesson, you've got to get that balance, right of not eating too much, because you're going to get stitch and not eating not enough because you're not going to have enough energy. So I suppose it's practice with the sense of doing it alongside training three times a day. But yeah, I think we've we've calories, obviously, you've got to eat enough to get your calories in. And I think before when I was when I wasn't vegan, I was restricting a lot of meals just to make just to meet weight because I found it hard to meet with. So I probably wasn't getting enough calories that either. So I think now because I've done it for so long, and I'm used to it. Now I can be able to just eat as much as I want and be able to just listen to my body. If that makes sense.

Jim Moore 47:48

Time is getting on I see Jamal but it'd be good to just sort of see what's next for you, you know, any any fights coming up on the horizon? Any more music planned? You know, where can folks find out a little bit more about you as well?

Jamal Le Doux 48:02

Well, I am planning on bringing out a music video within the next month. I can't give it a date, unfortunately, because I don't know when it's going to be finished. But I do plan in the next month. So to bring out a new music video got a lot going on at the moment with WIC and moving out as well. So I'm in the process of that I've been offered a couple of fights from from me, manager and trainer but that was in December, I think it's come at the wrong time with me say me moving out. So not not going to be taken on any fights at the moment. So I'm going to try and do a bit a bit of music. At the moment finish off a few projects I've done so hopefully they'll be able to to hear some of the new stuff that I've been working on. On YouTube Spotify, just type in my name ladoo Ollie, d o u u you and they'll be able to find it comes up easy. And yeah,

Jim Moore 49:01

love it. Awesome. Well, I'll put make sure we get links to everything in there the music, the vegan and thriving campaign, the Instagram profile, etc, etc. So we'll make sure folks can find you but Jamal, thank you so much, Ricky. Pleasure.

Jamal Le Doux 49:15

Thanks for having me. My

Jim Moore 49:16

pleasure. Thanks.