Chef Day Radley

Jim Moore 0:05

Hello, my name is Jim, this is my podcast the bloody vegans. You're very welcome to it. Each week I'll be travelling ever deeper into the world of veganism discovering along the way a multitude of viewpoints from the political and ethical to the practical. I'll be doing this through a series of conversations, each aiming to further illuminate my understanding, and hopefully yours, of all things pants centric. And this week is no different. At this week, I was joined by Chef de Radley, Chef de Radley is the founder of the vegan chef school, which is an amazing organisation that is helping budding chefs, whether in the kind of domestic home cooking sector, through to, you know, very commercial kind of operations, to helping those chefs become well versed in vegan cooking, to the kind of the high standards that chef de Radleys become known for herself. So it's an incredible cause. I mean, I've spoken to a few restaurant tours over the course of time either on the podcast or, or outside. And one of the big challenges that they talked about, we talked about this in the in the conversation with Chef de Radley is, is getting people who are vegan, and also well trained as chefs. Because the standard kind of Chef training is in the Old French style, which is very kind of meat, dairy heavy. So I guess chef de Radley is really compliant hearing Actually, she's, she's resetting the bar. And really helping folks with a much much needed service in training the next generation of chefs who are going to who are going to be front and centre of kind of vegan cooking cuisine and all of these amazing new restaurants open popping up over the last few years and will continue to I'm sure. So we'll get into that conversation in just a second. A little bit of admin. If you'd like to support the podcast, there's a number of ways to do so you can if you're an apple podcast subscriber, subscribe to the podcast, which is 99 pence a month, and that will give you early access to episodes. And we'll also help you sleep safe and soundly in the knowledge that you help keep the lights on Bloody Fagin's towers. So if you'd like to support in that way, you absolutely can offer an apple podcast subscribe. If you'd like to support via Patreon, you can do that too. Just head to Patreon search for bloody vegans podcasts. And there's a number of tiers of support that you can sign up to and support the podcast that way. There's also merchandise to buy on the website that is blooded third bloody vegans podcast or Coda UK. So if you'd like to do that you can do to us or just leave a lovely review on your podcast provider of choice. That's enough admin for today. So without further ado, here's a conversation between me and the founder of the vegan chef school chef de Radley.

Chef Day Radley 3:24

Well, it'll happen by accident, really. I mean, you know, a very happy accident. me like, like many vegans, like we're so thankful for kind of coming into contact with it. And so for me, I was, I think 17 years old. I grew up in Coventry. So I was there at college, and there was a protest at the local airfield. And so this was around the time when there have been protests in Dover against the the live export of veal calves. And because those, those protests, like they were so massive, and they were so disruptive, so they moved the transport of the veal cars from there to Coventry airfield. And so I went to this protest, and I didn't know I didn't know I knew a little bit about the veal calves from what had been on TV what been on the news. I didn't know about the life of dairy cow, you know, I thought like a lot people that a dairy cow just produced milk naturally. And so I went to this, this protest and this little old lady who was like about that tall, I'm only five foot three, you know, she's about four foot she's got like a little like tea cosy on to have like proper granny. So first of all, like completely busting any ideas that I had about what a protester but like, you know, because in the media, particularly at that Time, you know, protesters were seen as very alternative very aggressive, you know, tattoos, piercings, you know, people to be kind of like intimidated by. But this little old idea was like the antithesis of that. And she gave me this flyer and I will always to the end of my days remember, it was a pink flyer, and there was a picture of a cow on it. A dairy cow with her mother in gorged all the way down to the ground. Like it was so massive, it was all the way down to the ground. And in the flow, it detailed her life and the life her male calf. And at that moment, I decided to become vegan. I, I was at a really, really interesting time in my life, when I was just deciding what type of adult I wanted to be. You know, it's a really interesting time, I think when you start not accepting everything that is around you, and you start questioning it, and you start becoming your own person, really. So it came along at exactly the right time. And yeah, as I said, I went, I went vegan, overnight. Didn't know how to cook. So basically lived on Linda McCartney, for a while there until until I taught myself how to cook.

Jim Moore 6:22

Wow, that back in 95, as well. So some time now, what what was the kind of the landscape like from a from a Vegan Point of view when when you went back and told friends and family, I've been to this protest? This, this lovely old lady has completely blown my mind. And things have got to change. What was the reaction like were people kind of, I imagine weren't as used to hearing the word vegan, let alone having one in the family and so on. So what was the reaction like?

Chef Day Radley 6:55

Well, I think for my family, I'd always been the alternative one anyway. So I don't think they were massively surprised. But, you know, they were quite happy for me to be vegan, as long as I kicked myself really, which was great. Actually, I think that that's a really, really good thing for a 17 year old to do, you know, to become like, more independent in that way and to learn how to cook my friends. In fact, a lot of my friends at college went to the same protest as me. So, you know, a few of them were vegan. And if they weren't vegan, they're a vegetarian anyway. So, so yeah, I didn't get a huge amount of resistance from friends and family, like I know that people can do. You know, I think that is like, one of the hardest things about becoming vegan is the opinions of other people. So I didn't really have have that, which is great. But I did have to learn how to cook. Yeah.

Jim Moore 7:59

Looking back, was that was that this that do you think was the point at which you thought you know what I'm gonna be? I'm going to be a chef. It was it that early there that season implanted?

Chef Day Radley 8:11

No, no, not at all. I became a chef completely by accident, can I just fell into it. So, you know, I had never really considered it as a career because vegan food wasn't that popular, then there were hardly any vegan cafes, or restaurants. There may be vegetarian ones that had some vegan food there. And that was it. So the idea of being a chef was, was not even remotely of consideration to me. And so after art college, I ended up being a designer maker. So I would make fashion things like, you know, accessories, and clothes and stuff like that and sell them to boutiques. And eventually, I decided, well, this isn't really working out for me, I'm want to do something different. I went back to university to do art history as a Masters, and that made me less employable rather than more employable. But you know, I've always been interested in that type of thing. And then I was just wondering, you know, what I was going to do, where I was going to land, and I did a photography exhibition as part of the Brighton photo biannual. And my photography was exhibited in a cafe. And the guy from the cafe said, he was talking to me about me being vegan, and he said, we know what you know more about it than I do. Why don't you make food and I'll set it in the cafe. And so I started there, and I just started making food at home and I absolutely fell in love with it. And it was it was such an interesting time because when I was doing that stuff, you know, I'd be just working from home you know, just cooking, cooking, cooking like 1012 hours a day, and I absolutely loved Do you know so by the end of the day, I would feel like I could do another 12 hours. And, but that was I mean, that was, what, 12 years ago probably now. So at that time, they still weren't that many vegan restaurants around. But I knew that I just had to work out how to become a vegan chef. And so I did everything I could possibly think of I did loads of photography, which helps massively. I, I went for a job as a patisserie chef, of vegetarian restaurant. I basically kind of bullied the head chef into, into giving me a trial. So I took him along all my photography, I could, I took along two cakes. I had been in magazines in food magazine. So I bought all of that along, and I managed to get trial. And yeah, started there.

Jim Moore 11:02

Wow. Wow. Thank you, buddy. What are you going to exhibit in this cafe in the cafe owner saying, You know what, you know more about this for me, let's let's let you know, let's see what you can do sort of thing. Did you have a degree of confidence in your ability to cook at that point? Because I can imagine if somebody said that to me and said, Well, you're vegan, like you could, I would be petrified, you know, I might even think I'm quite, you know, maybe I'm a little handy at home. But, you know, it's suddenly like putting my food on on show, if you like, is a different ballgame. How were you feeling at that point?

Chef Day Radley 11:38

Well, I'm sure that I was trepidatious about it. However, I think that when the hunger outweighs the fear, then you're okay. Yeah. You know, and my hunger for it to do something, as a career that I love doing on a day to day basis, that was also for a cause that I really, really believed in. That was always the thing that I was looking for. And you know, I loved being in passion. I love the creativity of it. But it wasn't, it wasn't helping the world in the way that I thought it needed to be helped. And so once I figured that out, kind of like nothing could stop me. Really, I became like very, very one minded, very single minded and very, very focused on that.

Jim Moore 12:27

Yeah, absolutely. How did the, the, you know, you've decided you're going to become a chef, you've got this opportunity, like so you're working now alongside three chefs and so on so forth. And vegetarian restaurant? How did the training, quote unquote, at the time differ? Compared to what you may have seen, from the sort of more omnivorous, the mainstream? Folk, if you like?

Chef Day Radley 12:56

What do you mean? Like, like Chef trading?

Jim Moore 12:59

Yeah. Yeah. What was the path into it from a learning point of view?

Chef Day Radley 13:03

Yeah, yeah, well, I mean, for a long time, now, it's been pretty much the same, you know, there are standard courses that include, you know, butchery and fish, and all of this, you know, type of stuff. And a lot of people no matter what type of cuisine they wanted to create, they would go and do those standard courses. But in the UK, we have a lot of chefs who have never done a course ever. Okay, you know, there's a lot of people who haven't had any training at all, go into working in kitchens. And, you know, I think when one of the things that I realised becoming a chef for the first time, was that you don't to be a chef, you don't necessarily need to know, all of the recipes. You need to know how to make the recipes that that restaurant or cafe makes, and you need to be able to follow a recipe and be quick and do multiple things at the same time. You know, and that that's all really you need to be able to do. So, but then I did, I really did want to become trained. And I searched and searched and searched. And there is nothing out there for me. And I know some vegan chefs who have gone through the traditional route. And they've put up with doing all the butchery and the fish and stuff like that, but I knew that I couldn't do it. And I also knew that it would be a waste of my time and money because why learn something that you're never going to use again. So I basically just had to have on the job training and teach myself. Really.

Jim Moore 14:40

Yeah. And did that. Did that early experience. Do you think that informed what you've gone on to do and create in the in the vegan chef school?

Chef Day Radley 14:48

Absolutely. Absolutely. You know, the vegan chef school is basically something that I've created for myself 10 years ago, that that may that may I'm making it for that person. And, you know, so everything that I do, I'm always constantly thinking, Well, what was it I was missing? What did I need, you know, what would have helped me to get into a kitchen to get onto the career ladder. And that's why with the chef course that we run, I don't just teach students recipes. I also teach them like how to be creative. But also I teach them how to be confident, because you really do need a degree of confidence to be a chef.

Jim Moore 15:28

Absolutely, yeah. I mean, that just the the environment. Like I say, you might find yourself thinking, you know, home quote, unquote, good in the kitchen. So on it's a very different ballgame to from my limited understanding to being in a commercial kitchen, you know, yeah, having read a couple of Anthony Bourdain book. scared the life out of me. I certainly wouldn't go anywhere near it. And more power to you.

Chef Day Radley 15:54

Yeah, I must say that his experience is quite extreme. I say that there are more positive kittens these days.

Jim Moore 16:03

Maybe not a place to have started. Turn me right off. Yeah. So when When did you get started with the vegan chef school?

Chef Day Radley 16:13

Three years ago. So we just celebrated our third anniversary. So I launched the school on world vegan day.

Jim Moore 16:22

gratulations.

Chef Day Radley 16:23

Yeah, yeah. So three years. So of course, you know, we started just with the chef course. And that was in person. And then when the pandemic hit, I converted the chef course to being an online course. And then we also launched a course for home cooks, which is the cooking diploma. And then the latest one that we released is the nutrition diploma. So that is specifically for people who are working in food. Because as chefs, chefs and you know, recipe developers and caterers, we often get asked quite a lot of questions about nutrition, and to make a menu that is suitable for, you know, people would like certain conditions or that type of thing. So the nutrition course helps with that.

Jim Moore 17:13

Yeah, absolutely. So just thinking about three years, you know, obviously a fantastic thing to have set up. One of the earlier it was two years ago, but one of the early podcasts I did was with a restaurant, locally, to me is a vegan restaurant, fantastic place. But one of the things that he said he was struck him as a problem was getting people who were, you know, not only vegan but but trained, you know, and he said that this is gonna be just become a growing growing problem that there's more people who want to open restaurants, and no, no formal setting for them to get trained in. So is that obviously that was the initial with the the chef school so on, that was the start, how has that been received by the sort of the vegan restaurant community and so on.

Chef Day Radley 18:04

They are, as you say, crying out for people who are both passionate about it, but also knowledgeable and can hack it in a kitchen, basically. You know, so, so a lot of my students, you know, they put their, their CVs on, on job sites, and they get they get employers contacting them. Because they're actively looking for people, people like this. So yeah, there's a massive call for for students for graduates, I should say. Because quite often, you know, I remember, you know, like, five years ago, a lot of people who were working as vegan chefs, yeah, they were really passionate about it, really passionate about it. And that was amazing. But they didn't know you know, how to organise a kitchen, like how to do a miss on place. They weren't like organised in the way that chefs have to be organised and that type of thing. So yeah, and that's only going to get even more so over the next the next few years.

Jim Moore 19:02

Absolutely. I want to get your view on something. Because obviously that there's that sector, there's the sort of the vegan restaurants and they're, you know, thankfully that they are growing paces more and more and more than popping up in different places. And that's fantastic. What's your view of the the this sounds like a negative way of wording this but the state of vegan food in the in sort of the omnivorous restaurant world? How do you kind of view it they're sort of the options given it means in mainstream restaurant, I say this slightly loaded but and this might be from my perspective, I feel like there's a bit of a it's kind of good in a way because it's it they're good entry foods, but there is a bit of an identikit, like popping up that I've found in omnivorous restaurants that it's like there's the vegan burger is sort of the is the modern equivalent of what the risotto from like, you know, 15 years ago maybe was the vegetarian option and now the option is like there's burger, and there's not a great deal beyond that it's kind of salad or burger. What's your view of the kind of the way omnivorous restaurants and the chains and so on, are tackling the sort of growing demand in vegan food?

Chef Day Radley 20:14

Well, I think it's great that there are options out there, you know, that's phenomenal. And you know, having become vegan in the 90s, that is, like such a massive trend. And that that's really, really wonderful. But I think that they get a bit lazy with it. And, you know, there are places that quite early on had a vague menu like Pizza Express, but then they don't seem to have updated it. And it doesn't seem to be that progressive. And that's the thing like with vegan food, vegan food is very, very quick changing, like it's very, it's developing very, very quickly now. And they've got to keep up with the times. So whilst once upon a time like that might have been like your go to place because you've got all of this competition. You know, you've got to you've got to update it, you've got to make it better. I mean, I think Pizza Express here where I live have just launched a vegan, butterball, and I don't want to, I don't want to eat but you know, and the thing is, like, you know, if they're thinking about like, what the vegans one is, basically, we want the non vegan menu made vegan. Yeah, like, that's, it doesn't need to be any more difficult than that, you know? So, you know, I think like, what subway did, I think was it last year, the year before, was absolutely phenomenal on a billboard, they had their meatballs up with meat in it. And underneath it was the meatball sub that's vegan. And they're exactly the same. Yeah. That that's all they need to do. Like, you don't need a huge amount of imagination. Of course, you need like the recipe developers to be able to do that. But that's totally possible. That's totally possible. So, you know, like the mainstream chains are. They're doing just about enough. But I would like to see them getting better. I went to purezza in Brighton last week. And what they do is absolutely phenomenal. I mean, that is like a whole other level. So you know, pizzaexpress need to go and check them out.

Jim Moore 22:31

Yeah. And expanding quite quite fast on the pure. So they've got a couple now and is it two or three restaurants? Yeah, it is absolutely fantastic. And you're so right. You articulated it, obviously far better than me. But that the That's exactly it, there's a local restaurant for me is a big this relatively big chain. But that and that is exactly the option, but a bowl or moving mountains burger, their boat, and it's great. I'm glad I've got an option. But that that I do look at the omnivorous menu and think there's loads of different variety here, you know, whatever mood I'm in, I could go for something. Whereas I'm either in like, yoga vegan, or junk food vegan. It appears that that's the two people that they think exist within the community.

Chef Day Radley 23:21

Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely. But I didn't I don't know if you get what I get when I go to vegan restaurant like purezza. And they give me the menu. And I just can't decide because I'm just not used to it. There's just so much. I just want everything you know, but I'm just so used to getting a menu like I can have maybe one thing, maybe two things that are poached. And one of them, I'd have to ask them to remove the cheese from it. But it's good problems to have is good problem to have.

Jim Moore 23:50

It's like you say I can only imagine the 90s in terms of you know the difference day and night compared to now like they just, I imagine what what is refreshing, I suppose most places you go. You say the word vegan and people don't look at you blankly. Most people kind of know what you're saying at least. So you know that at least that is refreshing. But yeah, it would be nice to move on and adapt these things a little bit. Thinking about that, you know, from a point of view of somebody who is training up and coming chefs into into the world is the skill set. Obviously there's the stuff that is transferable like you say running a restaurant and organisation and not running a kitchen these kind of things. But is the skill set quite different in terms of you know, you're you're not necessarily just taking the tried and tested. You know, here's the the recipe handed down through generations of you know, French cooking ultimately. And so that when we're talking about actually you've got to come up with something really creative and new. You mentioned you made me think of exhausts as usual my mainstream restaurants I was thinking about Wagamama. So when they're recently they've got like a I think they've committed to like 50% of the menus vegan and they ask you at the door like, Would you like the vegan menu or would you like the the regular menu I still don't like the word regulars. Nothing regular about it but the normal the normal normal. A normal meal guy always making point and say now the other one the cow's milk thing, so have the Omo. But yeah, that's just me being pedantic but, yeah. Is it quite a different skill set that you're teaching folks? Because I've got, I've got to build something from the ground up.

Chef Day Radley 25:31

Yeah, yeah. So we do teach them how to be more creative. Partly because, you know, I don't want to create chefs that have to rely on recipes. I, that's always going to hold them back, really. So they need to learn how to be creative. So they have lots of different recipe development projects throughout the course. And I teach them the kind of building blocks of recipes. So you know, the five different tastes like how to introduce like different textures, and you know, all of that type of thing. And yeah, quite often, when people do go to work in vegan restaurants and cafes, quite often they are asked, more so than they would be in normal. Normal cafes and restaurants, non vegan cafes and restaurants, you know, to do more recipe developing, which they love, like students absolutely love the creative side of things. But yeah, I'd say it does happen more moreso in the vegan scene. And also, I teach students only gluten free. Right. And that's also something that they're developing.

Jim Moore 26:40

Yeah, thinking of that, that world, gluten free intolerances, so on and so forth. The, from your experience of working in the kind of omnivorous world in the past at various points. And then looking at looking from the outside in perhaps a bit more now. Do you see that the kind of the food intolerances are making people to also take things like veganism more seriously? Or is there not necessarily a link between the two like, I'm talking from a cross contamination point of view in the way the food is prepared and handled?

Chef Day Radley 27:11

Yeah, I mean, people should be taking it more seriously. But I still hear from friends that they were given something with meal care, or they were giving something with cheese in and they didn't realise until I took a bite of it. And now restaurant should be taken extremely seriously. You know, of course, like, you know, if you're vegan for ethical reasons, like it is absolutely horrible to have that happen to you. But if you are intolerant to or allergic to it, then you could end up very, very, very ill. But I think that there's still a bit of laziness in some kitchens about that.

Jim Moore 27:46

Yeah. And it also feels like, it's just from thinking about it with a commercial head on, you know, if you own a restaurant these days, and you don't offer gluten free, you don't cater for allergies, like, I dread to think how many people you know, ultimately turn away from your restaurant that you never know, you never knew that, because of that. So you know, more power to you for that.

Chef Day Radley 28:10

Yeah, yeah, well, there are guidelines that all restaurants and cafes should be adhering to. So you know, you need to be making sure that you clean down, you know, you clean boards, you know, when there are allergens present. If you are cooking gluten free things, then you would, for example, cook all of your gluten free cakes on, say, a Monday morning, so the kitchen would be completely clean, you know, flower, produce floats around in the air, so you need to make sure that all the air is settled. And that's why you would do it, like first thing in the morning with a clean kitchen, you know, and things should be separate. So they should be going along with those guidelines and rules. Definitely. Because, you know, there have been some really serious cases of people with allergies, you know, eating and drinking things that they that they shouldn't be. But I do think that if people think that you can't eat something, because you're vegan, they don't take it quite seriously. When actually it's you know, it's awful to eat something you know that you shouldn't or, and quite often, you know, like milk is like the thing you know, like I can taste the milk just because a coffee cup has been near the steamer in a coffee shop, you know, like that that taste gets like so. So much stronger to you. When you stop having

Jim Moore 29:38

Yes, totally. Totally. There's the steam ones in coffee shops always, always made me unnerved me a little bit. There's always like the cloth that wipes them off. And then it's there's you know, none of it looks like there's there's any cross contamination been taken into account is just it's, I guess you know, these These places are set up for the 90% or whatever the mainstream, and they're like machines, there is a mechanism and you know, especially like a coffee shop. So, so it's all about, you know, pace and so on and so forth. And sometimes I think, you know, we've all been in jobs where we've been working on autopilot. And I'm certainly always like, Hawk on the on the barista from Where's where's the milk going? And so big after bass? Yeah, I mean, I just have black coffee. Yeah, yeah, you're so right there, your palate gets completely refined to this, I remember going into a coffee shop Bacala months ago, and, and they they use the wrong milk. I took one sip and you get this. It's almost like cheese to you at that point. Like, it's so potent, you know, compared to LA. Whereas if you'd have asked me back more numerous days to tell the difference, I'd have couldn't have told you. Anything really I was, you know, whatever. So yeah, you're so right, your palate does get a bit more refined as time goes on. So moving into the the, obviously the going back to the courses and so on, because you're the chef course we've talked about a little bit, but the home cooking course I'm kind of interested in did that come about as a result of demand? What were were folks kind of reaching out to you saying, I love what you're doing? Can I can I have a go at this too?

Chef Day Radley 31:31

Yeah. So at the start of the pandemic, obviously, you know, everything went online with the chef course. And I started doing Facebook Live catalogues every day. So I was doing them absolutely every day. And, you know, we built up like quite a following, and the majority people were in or people who were home cooks. And they actually wanted a course for me. So I developed a course for them. So there's seven different sections in the course, including one on tofu, which can baffle people, sometimes one of vegan cheese, you know, one on cakes, one pot meals, easy meals, like that type of thing.

Jim Moore 32:13

Yeah, absolutely. Oh, that I think is much much needed. You know, I when I came into the sort of world of veganism, you asked me about tofu, I mean, even now, to be honest, I still I still don't get it right half the time and I you know, I still don't feel like I get, you know, enough moisture out. And I think we could all serve to do a bit better. And actually, the, the pandemic, if there was one, you know, one unintended positive of it is certainly I think turned a lot of people back to Home Cooking, cooking from scratch. And so, so to give them an outlet and some structure around that, I think it's so important in particularly folks transitioning into veganism. Did you? Did you? And do you have any folks who are either not yet vegan? Or, you know, I think are thinking about it? Or is there a typical demographic? does it tend to be with the home with the home cooking course, tend to be folks who are kind of new to it? Or do you get people from every every kind of end of the spectrum?

Chef Day Radley 33:18

Well, the majority of people are vegan, I would say like 90% are, but that's 10% that aren't. Yeah, so. And they're either people who want to, you know, kind of gently increase the amount of vegan food in their diet, or people who, you know, have a partner who is vegan or intolerant of something. So, yeah, there's a real like, mixed bag. I mean, I try to make the, the courses as inclusive as possible. You know, we've got the word vegan in the title, because I want people to know, like, this is a vegan company, you know, we're not plant based. And I think that that's an important kind of, like, philosophical stance to show people. Yeah, you know, but we are, you know, completely open to anyone coming to us, you know, for whatever reason, and I've had chef students as well, who who aren't vegan. So, yeah, it's open to everybody. And, you know, I just think like, the more the merrier. And the more accessible, that we make it for people. And the more welcoming that we are to people, you know, the more that we will be able to help them to cook more vegan, and therefore, you know, reduce the suffering of animals.

Jim Moore 34:40

I'm impressed is at 10%. I'll be honest, I didn't think it would be. I didn't think it'd be that high. I think that's fantastic. You know, just just shows that there is that, like you say people who are wanting to over cater for a partner. It's just the increasing of it, and an interest There's no entry people coming into it who are want to be chefs and so on so forth, but not necessarily vegan. It's kind of interesting as well, most like they've, they can see that there is a growing market. Why not add this? This skill to my, my bow? You know what? Why not almost?

Chef Day Radley 35:17

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, absolutely, absolutely. So, yeah, and I think like, people are a lot less scared of the word vegan than they used to be, you know. And I think that that's why a lot of companies definitely wanted to use the word plant based. You know, there were there were restaurants and cafes that I used to do recipe developing for, and I didn't want to use the word vegan. So I always called it the V word. You know, like, it's like a naughty word. But now people aren't bothered by that at all. And I think that's testament to now organisations, like, like, began uary, showing people that they that it isn't like this massively scary thing, and they don't have to say yes, like, from tomorrow, I'm gonna go 100% vegan for the rest of my life. And I'm, you know, just kind of figure it out, which was essentially what I did. But it's not for everybody. You know, that people can kind of like test the waters, and they can, you know, gently increase the amount of vegan food in their diets.

Jim Moore 36:21

Yeah, absolutely. The nutritional course thinking about that, because that, that seems to tie in with that sentiment to me, like, you've come into it. Maybe you are thinking about doing overnight? Or maybe you are thinking, actually, I need to transition into this. I think for a lot of people, there's a fear over the nutritional element. You know, I remember, I remember a bit like you, it was an overnight thing. For me, it was Cowspiracy, and much later, 2017. But I do remember that distinct feeling of, I probably am going to die. Which was completely silly, of course. But I remember thinking, I probably will keel over at some point. But you know, ethically, I didn't have a little one at the time. And also, ethically, who cares? You know, it's the right thing to do. So on and so forth. I'll live with that. So do you find folks who take it on the nutritional course in that space? Or is it often existing vegans who are wanting to call a tune up?

Chef Day Radley 37:29

Well, the nutrition course was mainly created for will be called them food creators. So that could be recipe developers, chefs, you know, people who want to start their own brands, their own businesses, you know, that type of thing. But it's also there for home cooks as well. So the majority people, you know, they want to work in vegan food. So they might want to be like private chefs, personal chefs, they want to learn how to create menus for people with specific ailments, you know, that type of thing, or, you know, people in different age groups at different times of their life need, you know, different slightly different diets. So, you know, a lot, a lot of the students are within that bracket. But we do have some students who want to do it just for themselves. And so with the course, the course is split into into two main sections. So first of all, is the nutrition side of things, which I developed with a nutritionist, a qualified nutritionist, from plant based health professionals. And then the second half of the course, is taking that nutrition knowledge and building menus, recipes, meal plans with that knowledge, because, you know, I have researched nutrition for a long time, and it is very difficult to then make the leap from Okay, well, I know that vitamin E is in that food, too. Okay, well, how do I put it in my diet, you know, because nutrition knowledge is very abstract, you know, so you need to be able to put it into practice. So it helps people go step by step, putting it into into recipes, and eventually putting into a full meal plan. But, you know, the students who have done it just for themselves have been able to see that, you know, within their day to day, day to day diet, there are things that they're missing, there are things that they should increase, you know, and they've been able to think of creative ways around that basically,

Jim Moore 39:32

like you say, is an incredibly kind of abstract and difficult thing to to get your head round, you know, like, like you say, you could end up with a list of fairly arbitrary whole foods that you just need to sort of just ingest at various points as if you were taking in, you know, vitamins, B vitamins, like if I five walnuts here and this there, but, but it kind of, it could become a fairly, you know, not always a joyless, but But you wouldn't be necessarily getting the full benefits of eating great food. So teaching folks to pick those ingredients up and turn them into things, and then do that consistently is, you know, I think it's a fantastic thing. Yeah. And probably for many takes the fear out of it. Because,

Chef Day Radley 40:17

yeah, yeah, definitely, definitely. I mean, I would always say that if you make sure that you eat a rainbow, which I'm sure that you know, you and your listeners have heard before, but if you keep to that, then you pretty much can't go wrong, as long as you are a healthy adult. So you know what, it to me eating a rainbow doesn't mean just eating all of the different colours, but eating, you know, nuts and seeds and grains, and fruit and vegetables, you know, a broad spectrum of all of the foods that are available to us, and mainly homemade. Yeah, preferably.

Jim Moore 40:59

Thinking about that, actually, because that's a question often end up talking to folks about is the N A concern often have which is why I asked for different people's perspective on it. But there is obviously this increase in prepared foods. We live in a very quick grab and go culture. Admittedly, there was a big old pause put on that for the last kind of 18 months or so. But generally speaking, people haven't got time to do anything. You know, at least I think they have is a prioritisation point, in some cases, I think. But generally speaking, we live these lives and so we tend to be you know, picking up things at the train station, you know, all this kind of stuff, eating on the go. takeouts, etc, and obviously, consumerist society that we live in. Big companies have found different ways to give us vegans the products, we wanted the alternatives, the Grab and Go sandwiches, the, you know, so on and so forth. And I have a little concern that, that these things aren't necessarily they're almost just replacing the same health problems that we would have had on an omnivorous diet with the kind of same problems just in the different guys. And so we're missing out on some of the, or the benefits of of veganism from the diet perspective. And that could actually lead to shownotes a bit of a thread, better mousetrap. But that, that that could lead to more people in the end, saying, you know, what I had to, I had to quit, you know, the Miley Cyrus sources, you know, I had to quit because of, you know, my, my brain health or whatever these are, I was missing out on this time the other. So, do you share that concern? Or am I have I got a tinfoil hat on me to calm down a bit?

Chef Day Radley 42:55

No, I do understand it. And I think that those products are great as a starting point. And for ease, but I don't think it's a place where people should stay. So I don't think that you should just consume the readymade products day in day out, you know, they still contain, you know, fillers and so and sugar. And, you know, I don't think that food has to be difficult to make, you know, I focus on a lot of one pot dishes, because I know that my competition out there is the ready made stuff, you know, so yeah, some of my recipes have to be as almost as easy as the readymade stuff, you know, it does that that's my competition. But there are a lot of one pot dishes where literally, you just chop veg, put it into a pot, add some water, you know, let it bubble away, and then you've got a meal at the end of it. So, you know, there are things like that, but people have to consider, you know, what they want their quality of life to be. It's not just about longevity, but it's also about quality of life. Now and you know, 10 and 20 in 30 years time. So they're not things that I think that we should be reliant on. We should see them as treat food. You know, not not day in day out food?

Jim Moore 44:12

Absolutely. Is there a couple of either dishes or certainly ingredients that you think any person who's either existing vegan wanting to kind of sharpen up their their diet, perhaps get away from some of the prepared foods, processed foods, or somebody new into the world for you should be absolutely kind of considering from a convenience point of view but also from a nutritional point of view is that is there a couple of ingredients or a couple of key meals that you would consider a go to to get under your belt? Well,

Chef Day Radley 44:43

to be honest, I think you know, if you learn the rules of a one pot dish, then you can use so many different ingredients in them, you know, so you can chuck in wedges. You can chuck in, you know, rice or noodles or you know, a lot of different things and You've got a one pot dish there lentils as well. I mean, lentils are, you know, a lot of people like seeing them as like quite boring, quite like quite a worthy ingredient, you know, but it's a really, really cheap source of protein. And in our society, a lot of protein sources are very, very expensive. So you know, even like tofu, you know, is more expensive than the vegetables, but lentils, lentils and spices are really, really good for you and really, really cheap as well. You know, and I think that that's something that we also have to really consider these days because food prices are going up, you know, so, and, you know, people do have the idea incorrectly, that eating vegan is more expensive. Some people have that idea. I think we're slowly starting to dismantle ideas like that. But yeah, I mean, yeah, those ingredients, I think a great and great versus tight satiety as well, if I can say it. But you know, it's super easy to chuck in into a pot, you know, lentils, spices, onion powder, garlic powder, and make a you know, a curry with chickpeas as well. You know, potatoes, carrots, like that type of thing. Just in one pot.

Jim Moore 46:18

Absolutely. And that was a favourite of mine, a chick chickpea curry or lentil curry is an absolute go to, and I don't think I've ever made two that are the same, to be honest. But they all tastes kind of good in their own way. I think like you say, you can kind of change your spice profile slightly and mix up the ingredients and mess around with it a little bit. And you can't go too far wrong. I think one of the benefits me as a very amateur home cook that I found moving from cooking omnivorous to cooking vegan, is you don't have to consider quite so much the fact that if you don't quite cook something right there, you're you know, you're gonna die. Yeah, it's one of the one of the huge benefits or you're gonna make some very sick. So yeah, I definitely think you know, experimentation is something we should all we should all get involved

Chef Day Radley 47:12

in. Yeah, definitely. Definitely. I mean, I, one of my mantras is play with your food. Because quite often people can get really, really worried that they're going to do something wrong. But you know, if you aren't having the guys from MasterChef round for dinner, don't worry about it so much, you know, try to be like a bit more experimental, a bit more creative. And, you know, take a recipe that you've done many times and switch it up, you know, just try to be a bit more playful with a you know, it's such a creative thing, like food is such a creative thing. And I don't know how we got to this point of it being so, so stressful for so many people, you know, and almost like, like, a chore that a lot of people really hate Yeah, people love watching bakeoff Yeah, and there's just this really, really weird relationship in the UK that we've got with with cooking. You know, we don't want to do it ourselves. But we just want to watch people do it.

Jim Moore 48:16

Is is fascinating. Yeah. I've been watching a bit of the Bake Off obviously with fryer and have I felt obliged to support but but yeah, it is an odd phenomenon that we that we are obsessed with, with cooking shows master chef and elves kitchen over in the States and you know, all these kind of things. Another another vegan representing on Hell's Kitchen with Josey over there. So we're obsessed with it. But yeah, at the same time, don't. It's not like we watch it to go. Oh, that's giving me some some good ideas. I'm gonna go into the kitchen. We just it's just entertainment. Yeah,

Chef Day Radley 48:56

yeah, yeah, yeah. And actually, I think shows like MasterChef can do a lot of damage. Because, you know, I mean, I used to watch MasterChef a long time ago. And I remember seeing them say that a soup was too thick or too thin. And it's just, I don't know how they can say that. Like, it's such a subjective thing. You know, and it makes people feel like food needs to be exactly right.

Jim Moore 49:22

No, I think I think he might, you might hit the nail on the head there. If I think about like, growing up in the 80s there was a lot of cooking shows were like very practical, very home cooking. You know, like, remember the tail end of like Fanny Cradock or something, you know, it's kind of like, you know, it was like this. This is how you make X. Yeah. And it was all Delia Smith. You know, it was like, yeah, it was here I am making this thing that you should be making at home as instructional. It seems to be less of that. And more of like the talent show kind of vibe. Yeah. And the kind of celebrity chef, who you know, If you use Gordon Ramsay as an example, those kind of showing you they're kind of inside of the commercial kitchen, this sort of, you know, all this the language and so on, which I think all of that feeds into the psyche says like, this isn't for you to do. Yeah, this is this is this is for for serious people. Now. Yeah, I think you're right. I've never thought about it like that. But it's it must be damaging somewhere. Yeah,

Chef Day Radley 50:24

yeah, I spend a lot of time thinking about food.

Jim Moore 50:28

Course Yeah, of course, yes. Already is obviously not a revelation to you. But you've absolutely made me think differently about it. There's, there's less of that on TV. And an interesting, even though I've reflected a lot on the way that they've portrayed the vegan angle, whenever they do a vegan, I'm glad that they do on bake off that there is something but there is always a little bit of a, we can't really do it. Like, obviously, it's not gonna work as well. There's always that there's never kind of a like, we're not you could totally do it. I'd love to see it where it was. There was more. You know, vegan chefs like light be like somebody like yourself being in in one of those environments go no, you can totally do it like this, say do it. Like that kind of thing? Like, be amazing, I

Chef Day Radley 51:20

think. Yeah, yeah. It's, it's surprising to me the amount of resistance that there is to it, because I think that that's where creativity lies, you know, is so interesting to be able to take something that has historically been non vegan, non gluten free and go, Okay, well, how are we going to do this? And there is often a way I mean, we have create, banished create, like so many foods that have been historically non vegan and non vegan for a really long time. And just over the last, you know, 510 years, we've worked out how to do it.

Jim Moore 51:57

But you mentioned like, early in your journey, like patisserie is one of those areas that I just, if you'd have asked me pre vegan and pre coming across some petitioners who are vegan and have have done it, I would have said, Oh, well, that's one area just gonna have to say, No, you can't have that anymore. But I think there's so many great examples, you know, yourself included, the folks say, Now, you can totally do it. Yeah. And, and it's, it's just as good, if not better, you know, yeah. Which I think is a bit of a mantra of yours actually. stolen.

Chef Day Radley 52:33

Yeah, but to be honest, I really like people telling me that I can't do it. Because it just makes me want to prove them wrong.

Jim Moore 52:44

Absolutely, absolutely. Like you say, is not teaching people recipes, but teaching people how to how to cook the building blocks the fundamentals, and then they can be creative and they can meet these challenges of you can't do it and all those kinds of things. I think it's it's an amazing thing that you're doing. It's it's a wonderful piece of activism in its in its own way, I really do think that it would be remiss of us not to tell folks where to go about finding you before we before I let you go. And I really do appreciate your time. Where would folks go about finding the vegan chef school and perhaps enrolling on a course maybe.

Chef Day Radley 53:21

So the main place is our website, which is the vegan chair school.com. So we've got information about all of our courses on there, and you can book onto the course and you can you can get one as a present as well for Christmas. And we're on Instagram and Facebook also as the vegan chef school.

Jim Moore 53:40

Excellent, excellent. Well, I'll put links in the show notes. So if folks want to go and check out the vegan chef school, enrolling in courses, like say what brilliant Christmas gift was, for some people just in time for Veganuary if you've got a friend or loved one is a keen, keen Cook, wants to take it to the next level. Then why not? Thank you, Chef Radley. It's been an absolute pleasure. I really appreciate your time. I know you're super super busy. So thank you so much. It's been a pleasure.