Zoey Henderson
Jim Moore 0:16
Hello, my name is Jim, this is my podcast the bloody vegans. You're very welcome to it. Each week I'll be travelling ever deeper into the world of veganism, discovering along the way a multitude of viewpoints from the political and ethical to the practical. Are we doing this through a series of conversations, each aiming to further illuminate my understanding, and hopefully yours, of all things, pants centric, and this week is no different, I think is Episode 77. This week, and I'm going to be chatting with Zoe Henderson. Zoe is the founder of function Brewing Company, a craft beer company, but with a bit of a difference. Firstly, it's alcohol free. Which, you know, is is a huge growing trend in post personal disclosure, I don't drink haven't done for for many years. And so function was a wonderful way to enjoy a nice drink without necessarily the older the negative after effects of drinking alcohol. And the second aspect of function brewing company that is very, very different is that they brew using app to genetic, I can't even say it app to genic Is that right? I feel like I need to check that now. Up to Gen mushrooms. So these are kind of ancient mushrooms that have actually medicinal purposes. Whilst it's you know, it's very difficult to go through any kind of testing process to say, very specifically that this particular craft beer will give you you know, wonderful health benefits. I think, you know, these these mushrooms absolutely do and the beer is brewed from them. So yeah, they've been used for 1000s of years in varying cultures. So it's, it's quite an exciting prospect really. And I know within the craft beer world as well as within the vegan world function is making some some real tracks and some real headway in a positive way. So without further ado, here's a conversation between me and Zoe Henderson from function Brewing Company.
Zoey Henderson 2:38
Yeah, so it's been a long journey. And it kind of started when all the cows went mass. Do remember that back in the day? Everyone's forgotten about mad cow disease. I think it was around 93 Yeah, early 90s. And at that point, my mom went right we're not eating red meat anymore. And I was young, so I didn't really understand what's going on, but I just knew that we weren't eating cows and lambs anymore. And I was like, cool. So that started it and then over the years, we went reducing it down, we became pescatarian and we became vegetarian. And then I was a guilt ridden vegan, guilt ridden vegetarian for like about 15 years where I was loved animals I've grown up with animals you know, I had when I was younger I had everything from donkeys to chickens to pheasants to horses to everything so we were always surrounded by animals and would rescue anything and everything and take anything under our wing and as kids and so knowing how much I loved animals then stopping eating meat I still had this disconnect because I was like I didn't fully understand the damage of dairy and I fully understand that it's you know, worse almost then growing animals to meat you know the process is so much longer the emotional the physical stresses is increased over this time of a dairy cows life and so battled with this kind of like but I love cheese, but it's not as bad doesn't have a face all of that. And then five years ago I went right that's it I think I've watched cowspiracy I've watched Earthlings I've watched you started to read around and it was at a time when there was loads more information coming out. And once you kind of I had a day when I was like I need to sit down and watch all these documentaries I need to cry and into Bernie's images into my retina. And then at that point, I was like, I can't do it. And from that day and it's always a journey with with going plant based and then go vegan which I see them as two different things to get into the point of where I am now you know at the start it was right you're not eating meat and dairy and eggs and then it goes into you know that cheese that you'd love so much suddenly you it just doesn't taste nice in your mouth anymore. You know, I would love to do yes melty cheese and it was just like as a vegetarian I cheese on everything. And then suddenly because I knew of the emotional suffering and because I knew of what was hot In the process of making that product, it just didn't taste good for me anymore. And you know within like the 40 days of the the addiction cycle that we have, you know, I stopped craving cheese, I stopped wanting cheese, and now you know, walking past a deli or somewhere where there's lots of cheeses, it's just, it's too much for me, and the smell is awful, I just can't but back in the day, I would have been like that smells amazing. So it's really funny, the kind of emotional and mental kind of process you go to. And the same with removing other products from my from my life like leather, you know, that leather jacket that you had that you always thought you'd already bought in, you know, you'd put it on, like, I can just see the skin of another animal on me now. It's gross, doesn't matter how much I loved it. So you know, threw away hundreds of pounds worth of boots and jackets and stuff. But yeah, it's been a real journey up to now. But it feels great.
Jim Moore 5:51
Was that that original, that early 90s sort of family decision? Was that purely about the health and the fear of, you know, the, what? The animal agriculture industry was kind of brewing up in terms of, you know, these diseases and so on?
Zoey Henderson 6:09
I think so, from my mom's dishes, and as I said, our, you know, our kids, yeah, I was really thinking about, but very much and my mum, you know, it was all over the news, the zoological diseases that were happening and the concern and then at the same time, you know, you had egg scandals, and people were starting to understand that there was more antibiotics used in animals. So at the beginning, it was very much a health thing, even though my mum who now is 99% vegan, you know, she was a massive animal lover as well, it was just the two of us. And, you know, so I think we both lived with this cognitive dissonance, where we loved animals, more anything, you know, they're part of our family. But somehow we were still ingrained in this culture of being thinking that, you know, they live this nice happy existence, and that actually, somehow we're supposed to eat them. And this is how it's supposed to be. So it's definitely been a journey for me now I'm an ethical vegan for sure. I, you know, the health implications are the cherry on the top of a great lifestyle choice. But for me, it's the it's the emotional and the ethical experience of being a vegan, that's really crucial for me.
Jim Moore 7:16
Yes, absolutely. The last sort of five years, he said, if you went through this period of, I'm going to I'm going to use the phrase, I liked it, but burn the images into my my retina, you know, from watching the, the the various documentaries that that were out there. Was there a sense of, you know, I need to relearn a fair amount, you know, whether it be diet three, or, you know, was it like I'm, you know, what about all of the products in my life? Did you go through quite a big learning journey? And if so, where did that learning come from? You know, did you have folks guiding you through this at that point?
Zoey Henderson 8:02
Yeah, I think when I made the decision to go fully vegan, I was very healthy in my lifestyle. Anyway, I'd set up and oder juice bar was doing juice detoxes, and was very much on the health trip, and was understanding all the different, you know, Herbes and plants and foods that we can get into our diets to make us healthy, even though still with little slivers of, you know, fish here now. And then, you know, cheese and eggs here, now and then. So at that point, I was at a point in my life where I was ready to then take that further bit of research and go into, you know, making sure I have complete protein is making sure that I'm getting a complete, you know, a complete diet and that I'm not lacking in anything. And I find that really interesting because nobody ever looks at someone who eats me. And you know, when they're not looking great, or they're tired, goes, you're getting enough, you're getting enough minerals, nobody thinks that and yet, you know, a lot of people are deficient in vitamins and minerals that you're getting, because you know that eating poor quality meat that you're eating, you know, meat in itself isn't enough to give you everything that you need. But we've been tricked into this amazing marketing ploy, which has been finely interwoven into our culture over 1000s of years that actually, you know, we need meat to survive, we need dairy for strong bones and like the myth that we need, you know, alcohol to have a celebration, you know, these are marketing myths, and this is what people are starting to realise and get, oh, there was a product that needed to be sold. And they created a culture around that and and now because of these amazing documentaries, because of the way that information is shared online and and the resources open to us now, that's really changing. You know, I think when I went vegetarian, if that been the internet or you know, the internet like it is now if they'd been the amount of data and information that there is now I probably would have gone vegan a lot sooner. I think it was just You know, the last five years has been amazing, hasn't it for documentaries for research for studies, you know, veganuary the work that pet is doing, like all the work that's that's kind of coming together to push this this plant forward message and this vegan future for sustainability for animal welfare, you know, for our health. It seems like we've kind of bubbled up now to a point where the messages are too strong for people to ignore.
Jim Moore 10:27
on that front of the social media point, and it's been a bit of a discussion point in a few podcasts over the over the weeks and months. I think, you know, we'd probably both agree that there's definitely this this sharing of information, like you say, if we'd have had access to some of this information long ago, we probably wouldn't believe the myths and legends and marketing ploys that we were, we were given from from sort of birth or most. But it has a kind of, you know, there's a potential and I hear a lot of debate within the sort of, quote unquote vegan community there's a potential negativity around the sort of influencer culture that sort of veganism is kind of CO opted by commercial sort of forces if you like there's all these kind of there's a lot of negative spins on it. You know, I just love to get your, your take on it on where you think kind of quote unquote vegan culture and vegan community is and it's and the role of social media within it.
Zoey Henderson 11:31
It's really interesting, and I think it is something that you're hearing people within the vegan community talking more about, and I think it's a double edged sword, right? So social media has driven and created a platform where you can share information, people can see videos, they can, they can find out health information. And for the most part, that's been amazing, that's been transformative, that's really helped push veganism into the mainstream. However, on that vehicle of on that train driving veganism into the mainstream, there's been some passengers that are not necessarily doing it for the right reasons. But if they're getting that train to its destination, I'm willing to go Yeah, but there are a lot of these flaky, Fairweather vegans or people that are you know, hashtagging veganism hashtag vegan putting pictures of them you know, eating smashed avocado and like yesterday they weren't vegan and the day after they went vegan, that to me I find very frustrating you know, and I find that it can be then perpetuating this this kind of feeling with non vegans that it's a fad that it's flaky Yeah, that there's not much substance in it. You also have you know, Tails then of influences encouraging young people to go vegan without any kind of context around it and then never, not very well because there are only bowls of kale and then you know, they're not looking after the nutrition and you know, that it just looks like it's this kind of unhealthy celeb influencer culture, that's, you know, making everyone vegan and not very well. However, I feel like in order to mainstream a movement, this in the modern world that we live in is a, an unavoidable byproduct, you know, these influences and social media, whether it's veganism or eco or black lives matter how many people did you see posting black squares and black lives matter who you know, don't care about Black Lives Matter, and they're doing it for the ground, you know, people that are going on about how, you know, conscious, they are the environment, and yet every other picture is there on a beach somewhere, and they're flying around. Like, you're always gonna have those people, but I think we have to go fine, you can sit on the back of my train while I'm driving into the mainstream and just should be quiet, because there's lots more people who are driving it forward in a more positive message.
Jim Moore 13:49
That's a really good point, actually, about that. That it's almost You didn't say this, but I'll say this when necessary evil. Yeah, yeah. That it's, you know, and it's almost the, the vehicle of gaining sort of attention and traction. But I think there's an interesting point about who's kind of driving this train that there's a responsibility incumbent upon, you know, the, the sort of the rest of the living community, we like to help people, whether it be from a health standpoint, whether it be from our understanding the ethical arguments and debates that exist within doing it for the right reasons, you know, someone's hopeful it's, I think, you know, most people I speak to on this podcast, will will say that they, even if they started for health is almost by this point is, is a byproduct to the ethics of kept them you know, they might have started for health but stayed for the animals. And, and so, you know, I think it is, I think you're right, insofar as it's a necessary evil. But do you think therefore Almost rather than fight it and debate it within the rest of the community, we probably need to be more in a space of embrace and then help teach and learn once people are in, in the community, yeah, what do you think we were right to call it out?
Zoey Henderson 15:19
I mean, I think it's definitely interesting to discuss and to discuss internally. I think someone who's not vegan and doesn't want anything to do with veganism probably didn't listen to his podcast or listen to
Jim Moore 15:33
a word, but they probably would.
Zoey Henderson 15:35
But I think the outside world I think, you know, who's driving the train, you ask? Well, it's the activists, it's the people that have been tirelessly championing for animal welfare since you know, the 70s 60s. Before you know, they were the early vegans, they had to have sad brown rice, and like, you know, underseas and tofu for years, they had to be kind of excluded as the weird hippies in society, they had to be the people that, you know, got a bowl of salad at every dinner party or just weren't invited to dinner party, because there was additional ones. Those are the guys that are championing them. Unfortunately, activism and dedication isn't sexy in the mainstream. And that's wrong. But that's just the way it is, you know, nobody and most people don't want to go on a pig save mission know, most people don't want to sit outside a slaughterhouse and hear the noises that are coming outside. Most people don't literally want that blood on their hands. Because that's just not how society works. It always takes the Mavericks and their protagonists within society to push for that. And unfortunately, they have to do the fight. They have to be the ones that struggle and literally cry every night because nobody seems to be listening to what they're saying. Nobody seems to be making the change. And I think what we need to step back as, as a community of people who are trying to cheat literally change, the way the world is going and change systems is to go, Okay, if we're going to bring it into the mainstream, who cares if some fluffy influencer is going out here that vegan Who cares if this celebrity endorsement, endorsement because we all have to drive this forward, you know, it's down to producers who are making plant based products, it's down to people going, Okay, cell based meat, it's a bit meaning I don't necessarily want to eat it. But it's better than eating a cow, you know, burgers and products that emulate flesh, a lot of hardcore vegans don't like that, who cares? It's staving an animal's life if someone's eating it. So I think if veganism is going to really kind of achieve the goals that we want, and unfortunately, unfortunately, we're being pushed into a situation where there is no other choice, you know, there aren't the resources to live in a world where animal infrastructure is our main protein source, you know, we're not in a position where we can afford that amount of carbon, you know, to be expelled through animal in this, you know, animal industry and farming, we're not at a point where our bodies can take any more antibiotics, because we're resistant to most of them already. You know, we're being forced ecologically and socially, into a more plant based future. But I think it's down to a sword to go, just take what we can to make one more person not have meat on their plate for one serving a day, two servings a day, one month, a year or every single day. And I think, you know, we've, as a community, the extremism side of it, even though it is vital and necessary, and people do need to go on those marches, they do need to go to their slaughterhouses, they do need to literally be active in making a change. That's not going to bring in people that don't know about it, it's going to alienate people. It's going to scare people, an activist, not everyone is an activist and all they should be, you know, the worries of society that push forward and make sacrifices for the greater good of us. And they should be commended for that. But I think if we can just open up the doors in education and products that are available in knowledge, documentaries, in, you know, endorsements, then that's really what's going to make it mainstream. And that's what what's been happening, you know, that's why testigos now has the largest range of plant based foods out of all the supermarkets. That's why, you know, plant based meat cell based meat is getting some of the biggest investment funds in the world, you know, it's why outlay is, is kind of pushing forward as one of the leading brands and that's why companies like Tyson and these huge meat producers. And this is an interesting point, which I'd like to get your opinion on as well. They're now investing in cell based, cell based and plant based meats. Now one person could go this but they've got farms with 10s of 1000s millions of pigs, but now they're also investing in plant based meat. You could say I don't want that dirty money, blood money coming into a vegan products. But equally, every single dollar in this world has blood on it somewhere in the chain, because that's the capitalist world that we live in, and the unfair world that we live in. So why shouldn't we take some of their money to save some more pigs, even if they're still producing the farms at the same time. I mean, what do you think about that?
Jim Moore 20:02
was a tough one? Yeah. I mean, generally speaking, I suppose I do have a real, a real scepticism for companies introducing vegan products that are not vegan businesses. And I mean, Nestle's kick cat, for example. I've got no interest in partaking in that product. And I and I feel very reluctant to sort of celebrate that sort of thing when I see that in that I don't see that as progress. I don't I don't think it's progress. I think you know, if it is yes, there's definitely an argument and if it means that one of my omnivorous friends or family says, Oh, I can eat a kick cat, now, I see that that's, that's definitely a, an R, if that helps them then great if they were going to buy a kit cat, and they've now bought a vegan Cat Cat, and that leads them down a path, that means that they have a conversation with me or you or, or somebody else, then then it has a place. But as somebody within the vegan community who's been through the, you know, what, what I learned what I learned, I, you know, if I've got a pound to spend, I think it's a it's a vote for something, and I'd rather spend that pound with a smaller business that is thinking more holistically about their all of their practices. But to your point, you know, the fibre that I spend is, is is ill gotten in itself, you know, is it I mean, he's quite literally got animal products in a visceral, physical fibre. You know, from from that to the, where our tax money goes to, you know, all of the companies that we use, I think it's to sort of talk of veganism in a binary kind of on off fashion. And I know, the definition doesn't, you know, it supports the idea that it's as far as practicable and possible and so on, but I don't think it's useful to see it as a as a kind of perfect, perfect, binary. But I would try and avoid it. But do I still don't I still struggle with it being progress, I don't know. I'm prepared to be swayed. You're smarter than me on this. But that's why
Zoey Henderson 22:36
it's really hard, isn't it, because you know, we don't live in a perfect world, it is not black and white, it's like 5000 Shades of Grey between black and white. And, you know, we are overpopulating a resource limited planet with you know, we're still pretty monkey brains, humans that have suddenly given nuclear weapons and the power to do some awesome stuff. But we're still you know, we're still not that clever, because we're still burning fossil fuels and animals. Yeah. So nothing is pure, really, unless you go, you know, in your eco bubble on it on a retreat, eco retreat with growing everything yourself doing it. But even something along the way, it's got some kind of blood on it. And I agree with you, you know, if I've got money to spend, I'm not going to go to McDonald's and buy a veggie burger, because of all the atrocities that McDonald's are doing. However, I'm glad that now, there is an option, and everyone's on their journey. So if you're a young kid that's surrounded by young kids now, I think a lot more woke than we were when we were kids. But you know, if you're surrounded by people that are eating kitkats, and burgers, and pizzas, and if you can't even see a future where you won't be able to do that with your friends, a young brain is never going to go, it's an option. Unless you're like somebody wonderful, like aggressive thunberg that was kind of born with a mission and a purpose. You're always going to go, I want you it was hard enough to fit in as a teenager and as a kid anyway, right? So then to go, I'm going to alienate myself from all these things. But maybe that kid that buys that KitKat or buy that McDonald's today, when they're 30s will then go actually, now I'm only going to buy ethical products, I'm only going to buy products that actually, you know, have a sustainable, past a sustainable future, you know, I'm only going to buy from natural, small producers. So even though I agree that it's one of those, it's not for us, there's still millions and billions of people who aren't vegan in their journey. So if we can take one pound away from an animal based product being bought, even if it's going into a business with a bigger picture, then it's a step for the good and it's the same with investment. You know, do you want to take investment as a vegan business from a company that might have some kind of impact? You know, it's the body shop being bought by L'Oreal. It's Oh, be getting investment in Blackstone, which you know, actively deforest the Amazon, to, to, to grow beef on, you know, so, but they're taking that money because they know that that investment is going to help them push the plant based messaging and help them push the animal, anti animal testing message. So it's a very hard decision that people have to make. And I think in our really complex world, there's no, there's no soapbox that you can stand on to say completely 100% you know, focus, but it's interesting.
Jim Moore 25:33
No, it's definitely definitely one for debate. I mean, that the only one? Again, it's really challenging that, isn't it? Do I give money to to to Oatley? Will they? You know, will will they do what they they are proposing they're going to do with that money that they've ever had invested? Personally, it's made me not by overtly, either I'll buy minor figures as you know, smaller business I like what they stand for, like, like the the folks who run it. But if it means that only I can put up more billboards that say it's like milk, but first humans in Piccadilly Circus, and it in it, it that, you know, maybe maybe there's an argument for that if if the, I suppose it'll only be borne out by what the result of it is, whether it whether it pays off or not.
Zoey Henderson 26:30
You know, they did a double page spread that Christmas, where it was a letter to the parent and a letter to the kid and it was like, dear dad, I know you're struggling, you don't know what to cook me anymore. I know, it's really difficult. But please understand that you know, X amount of greenhouse gases go on animal infrastructure this year, you know, and then it was led to the kid going, don't be hard on your dad, he's really struggling. And it was, you know, their messaging is, is really helping to push a message that is basically like, it's fucking stupid to eat to drink. The baby cows, what you're doing your humaneness is to eat it, and they've got the balls to be able to do that. So I think sometimes, for the greater good, you have to look at the macro picture, you have to look at the bigger picture, you have to get the end goal. And necessarily how you get to that isn't always going to be perfect. But if we get to the end goal of eradicating animal agriculture, if we get to the end goal of, you know, releasing all the billions of animals that are in slavery or around the world, then we're winning. And I think we have to have a little bit of, you know, flexibility on our morals in terms of how we make more people go plant based.
Jim Moore 27:42
Agreed. Agreed. It'd be good to get into craft beer. Let's take let's take a bit of a Well, I suppose it's a left turn, but it's not really where it's all it's all wrong along the same path. So yeah, What's got you into CrossFit and what's brought you here? Yeah, so
Zoey Henderson 28:03
I have never been a huge drinker, but became a more mindful drinker. Definitely. A few years ago, I was working for a vegan restaurant group called redemption bond. And if remember those guys, yeah, yeah. So I was the operations director. We had three sites at a time and obviously, they're vegan, they're gluten free. They're also alcohol free and they had a full, you know, alcohol bar, not just like juices and smoothies. They had beer on draught. We have wines, cocktails, all that type of stuff. And I became a real mindful drinker, I really got into drinking non alcoholic beer. I actually loved the taste of beer, but I never liked the alcohol version. Because it's a lot of little it's a lot of pints for me to drink, I get very drunk and get very bloated, and it's not fun. But I always love the flavour of beer and that hoppy, earthy texture. And so I became a real alcohol free beer drinker. And at the same time, I'd been working with mushrooms for about six or seven years, found medicinal mushrooms in a trip to California years ago and was just like, Wow, I didn't even know that the kingdom of fungi had like this superhero sub segment of the mushrooms that are just you know, full of these bioactive compounds that really help support immunity can lower blood sugar level can support cognitive health, you know, these adaptogens that are really key kind of in our toolbox of life to help us function at our best and they keep us at our optimum. And so wanted to I've been supplementing with them for years putting them into my coffee, put them into my smoothies, and I'd wanted to do a product with them for a while and you know, there's some really cool brands in the states like for SIG Matic that are really mainstreaming mushrooms, making them cool, not woowoo you know, their slogan is that on streams, and they're really kind of breaking down those this Miko phobia that we have in society that mushrooms are weird slimy things that grow in the dark, they get you high or you put them on your pizza and there's nothing in between. So I really was wanted to create a product that was going to kind of push machines more into the mainstream, and then use that as a vessel to kind of push fun, go forward and get more involved. With talking about researching, finding out more how you know fungi can can help save the world. So this little thing called COVID don't have you heard of it?
Jim Moore 30:10
Yeah. Sadly.
Zoey Henderson 30:13
And you know had no work in hospitality. So I was sitting at home thinking right, now's the time. So I started to put the two together. Functional machines have a really interesting plate flavour profile, then nutty, bitter, sweet, earthy, super similar to hops. And I just thought, oh my god, this is it. My two favourite things that's putting together I think most products and brands come from the founders desire for something that they can't get. And I felt that we're creatures of ceremony right we you know, we've we're ceremonial, ritualistic, this has happened since we were dancing around campfires, you know, back in the day. And in order to get anything into our lives, you know, we need to make it habitual, we need to integrate it. That's where I think mushrooms and coffee works so well, because everyone or most people, that coffee or hot drink first thing in the morning. And for me having the social aspects coming together and sharing something a drink, again, another marketing method, it needs to be an alcoholic drink. But you know that that social ceremony to me was another key ritual that I was like, Yes, this is a great way for people to get another functional food into their diets. And at the same time, I wanted to prove that you could make a really great beer one with mushrooms to alcohol free, gluten free and not use lactose or isn't glass which is you know, as you probably know, as fish guts it as a filtration for your beer. And just thought you know why people still brewing beer like that? So I started last year, we launched in November, and went to a few breweries where you know, it was like, Who is this weird mushroom girl that wants to make this vegan? Got mushrooms in it for free? And I was just like yeah, we launched last year.
Jim Moore 31:52
Wow. That's incredible. You mentioned obviously, you've got to you've got this idea you've you've kind of figured out it's possible and then you've gone to some breweries, etc what was the process of like, I wouldn't even know where to begin thinking about how I'm going to make a beer even if I had a great idea to talk a little bit what does that process look like? Yeah,
Zoey Henderson 32:14
I mean, I was working within the mindful drinking space and actually somebody contacted me to write some content for a magazine that they were launching and they were alcohol free beer designer creator if you'd like he was a master Brewer and a guy that was working with as a master Brewer and he was basically developing alcohol free beers and he had worked with you know some of the big brands big drop in infinite sessions and he created some really cool products and I was like, Okay, this is great. So it was very serendipitous as I was thinking about how am I going to make this beer I somehow manifested this guide and then we developed the liquid and we developed the recipe and then I had to find a contract Brewer that was going to going to brew it for me found a great brewery now up in the north of England and you know, they make the product really well and kind of on board with all my unique requests. I think a lot of beers now a vegan which is great because it's one of those things it's like let's have let's take the low hanging fruit of animal products off the shelf and away it's like you don't need to make we're not vegan it's like alright, how am I going to get some It tastes like a steak for the for the omnivores you know we'll stick that over there worry about later Yeah, immediately a beer you don't need it in you know, face products you don't need it in juices or chips or anything else flavourings at why we're still using animal derivatives in that it's stupid. So yeah, I wanted to again, bring something to the mainstream that didn't have it in it and I think that's an interesting way that we're going to push this forward as well as it's really down to consumers vote with their vote with their dollars and they vote with the forks like something that you do every day is what you purchase, you know, and we live in a consumer society so you're purchasing something probably every day and you're eating every day. And what you do in those two things can shape and change society you know, where you're worried about the bigger picture and how I can change something and you know, what could I do to really change a whole global mindset what actually what you buy and what you eat, can can drive that that change and you know, vote with your forks and what you're putting into your bodies and what you're buying every single day can make a difference so I just wanted to bring in another product that was going to push your plant base message and also then start to really help get fungi and mushrooms out into the mainstream as well.
Jim Moore 34:30
What's just reversed nearby into the marketplace the sort of beer marketplace what's the what's the logic behind still using animal products you mentioned is pretty much irrelevant like is not just not required. What What is the logic is it costing is it just a tradition things that flavour what what does it offer flavour
Zoey Henderson 34:49
and body so obviously you get this quite a lot of alcohol free beers. You know when you cap the fermentation or you remove the alcohol from it, you do strip out some of the body. And lactose is a great filler. You know, there's creamy, stout, creamy porters, there are beer brands that still brew with they put lactose in it to pad it out. So it's a filler. You can get that from other things we get that from our mushrooms, you know, mushrooms at night polysaccharide, the starch base. So as they condition in the beer, they're breaking down their starches and sugars and actually creating body to a beer. You can use things like maltodextrin I'm not a big fan of that, but it is a way to kind of get some padding into your beer. And then of course it is in glasses is just one of those old stupid things like we have microfiber filters. Now we don't need to use fish guts, or calf guts or cat guts or whatever they used to use to filter stuff like we've got, you know, microplastics Now fortunately, unfortunately, that means you don't have to use animals. So that was kind of just an old traditional method and you know, you still get it in wines a little bit and well as well and some of the older the vineyards but it's not sterile, it's not a great idea. And that's kind of harking back to the old school, but lactose is very much I think, for body
Jim Moore 36:03
is there any? This might sound like a silly question to ask anyway, is it I'm thinking the world of craft beer my very limited naive knowledge is is a place a bit like I suppose coffee and other and and other alcoholic beverages is a place where what's the word? The people who are kind of that if people are into it, they're really into it. They kind of know this stuff. They're very particular, they're into the finite detail. And in that space is is the kind of the the average kind of crop we're not the average, but they're kind of craft beer fan, the craft beer community. Are they receptive to a beer made of mushrooms? A beer with no alcohol, and a beer with no animal products? Or is that been a really tough sell?
Zoey Henderson 36:58
What's interesting function is is we sit in between these four pillars of craft beer, no and low functional foods and then health and wellness around you know, so we launched into planet organic last week, so we're sitting within that health space, but we're also in loads of little independent craft beer bottle shops now. Your traditional, you know, bearded Folk Festival attendant. Cloudy beer, that looks like someone's unhealthy urine sample. Yeah, it's probably never gonna drink this weird Whoo, girls mushroom beer that's vegan. It's
Jim Moore 37:31
just nuts. Rotolo t shirt is what I'm thinking. Yeah,
Zoey Henderson 37:34
exactly. Just not on your radar. However, there are people within the craft beer world that love and appreciate craft beer, and now just don't want the alcohol. Yeah, first and foremost, I wanted to make a really great craft beer. So if you just want a great craft beer, you can drink it. And I've actually had people that have sampled it or bought it that didn't realise had mushrooms in it, until they got it home. And they were like, yeah, no lines. Just to name a call name Lion's Mane IPA. I was like, No, no, it's a mushroom. And I'm like, okay, so right, you know, so some people, some people don't even realise that but then if you are into functional mushrooms, and intercon, adaptogenic, herbs and fungi and health, then you'll see it you are that's quite cool. So even though it kind of narrows down the market, there is a crossover that we get in the middle of people that are wanting nice things. And what's interesting is I've designed the business and work with scaling the business in a way that we're going to reach out to global markets quite quickly. And I kind of quite quickly want to create a product that's drunk globally, but brewed locally so we're working with craft brewers in in Canada in the United States in Australia, New Zealand and Asia eventually that will be brewing up there on the ground and within those sectors that these little pockets of customers that are looking for all of these things and even though you won't be like the biggest craft beer brand in the UK, you'll be taking little segments in loads of different territories. And I feel like that's quite an exciting space to be in.
Jim Moore 38:59
Yeah, yes I mean that those sort of four pillars you talked about is pretty pretty awesome fields to be that and and like crossover but also quite quite different in places as well. It's very cool. I like the club. The bringing of those worlds together is very Come on.
Zoey Henderson 39:17
No one's No no,
Jim Moore 39:19
no, no, I've heard incredible
Zoey Henderson 39:24
the best idea ever is awful. We'll find out Yeah.
Jim Moore 39:28
Obviously I think is probably the former I'm sure is fantastic. I think that so I know, you know very little, if not anything about mushrooms. So the health benefits and the health benefits in this particular product of functional mushrooms, they begin to understand a little bit about that
Zoey Henderson 39:51
mushrooms are amazing, you know, they're a kingdom, you know, they sit in between the animal kingdom, the plant kingdom and they're responsible for kind of joining the two together. You know, they are in us honest all around this fun guy rather than than mushrooms and you know, they were responsible for dragging us out of the primordial soup and, and contributing to life as we know it and there's pretty much no part of our life that fungi doesn't touch fingers the organism and mushrooms are the fruiting body of the organism. So think of mushrooms as like the apple on the tree. And the fungus tree.
You know, mushrooms are nutritionally dense, whether that's your regular portobello mushrooms or your you know, your button mushrooms that you're used to having on your pizza, or what have you, your witchy new mushrooms you have in your resorptive you know, they are nutritionally dense, they contain high levels of B vitamins, D vitamins, selenium, copper manganese, you know, they're a really great product, they're a great protein source as we know. But we have to superfood category of mushrooms called the functional mushrooms or medicinal mushrooms that have been used by cultures for 1000s of years, you know, they grow all over the world, but namely in Northern Europe and Asia. And they've been used within cultures. Going back, you know, the the earliest records of mushroom use within cultures is, you know, 1000s and 1000s of years, they've been kind of heralded for their their health benefits. So Reishi, which is a motion that we use in one of our beers is hailed as the queen of immortality. And it was a revered mushroom that only the Royals in in in China could have in any, you know, lowly peasants, court growing ratio or taking issue with usually sentenced to death or locked up in a dark dungeon somewhere. And it really was this prized possession that the royal family kept it to keep themselves healthy, and they believed in the powers of it. Now, your average consumer that you know, pops near offenen, and relies on the word of a big pharmaceutical company, you know, thinks that plants and herbs are all a bit woowoo. And if they were great, we'd use them when we wouldn't have modern medicine. Well, we skip forward a bit modern medicine is amazing. There are amazing things that it can do and has achieved, of course, but the Ancient Medicine, the herbal medicine, the plant medicines that were being sustained in human evolution, and growth and health for millennia, are not to be ignored. And there's a reason why they're used to so long and you know, yes, we can fix a broken leg. And if you get a cut, you won't die of septicemia anymore from infection. But equally You know, this reliance on pharmaceutical drugs is is something that we now know isn't necessarily working for us. But what is amazing and sciences, these compounds that are in these mushrooms, and the functional machines, as I said are very much like the superfood mushrooms that the superheroes that have additional compounds within them that for some reason they were revered for now, the ancient Chinese medicine doctors knew that, that Reishi was good for the functioning of the liver and knew that it was good for detoxifying, they knew that chogha would be taken chakra is that a birch polypore that grows in northern forests in Scandinavia and Northern Europe. And the ancient people knew that that was good to take around winter time and time when you were cold or food scarcity you know massively boost your immune system. The ancients knew that focus and being tired you know, you'd make a bruise of Lion's Mane before you went on a on a track or a pilgrimage or you know into battle because they somehow knew that it helped focus but they didn't know why and so but now science is matching up and say we've isolated these compounds within these mushrooms that says you know it's the better d glucans within charge that are massively immuno supporting and it's the arena scenes in Lion's Mane that helps synthesise nerve growth factor which nourishes our neurons and actually helps neuroplasticity and cognitive health and can help stave off things like dementia and Alzheimer's so we're in a really interesting point where we can now back up and say this isn't just you know folklore or or herbal medicine for those that kind of you know think that's all a bit woowoo we can now go these compounds have been isolated and we can prove that these mushrooms go above and beyond a normal product you know, we know that they're adaptogenic and adaptogens basically help support keep your body in homeostasis and and keep you functioning at your best you know, we're all about this boosting our bodies giving ourselves this boost. Like somehow the body isn't the most perfect design ever. You know, a fully functioning human body is a flawless design. We just fuck it up with everything we do to it, you know, we don't feed fuel it properly, we put the toxins in it on it or around it, we don't rest it enough. Now that may makes our systems like our immune systems, our endocrine or hormone system makes them function not at their best. So adaptogens are like nature's little helper that helps kind of get these levels up to optimum functioning which is brilliant functioning. So yeah, these functional machines really are kind of heralded and now the research and science is coming out to kind of prove it. So I really wanted to bring them back into the mainstream, bring them into the mainstream. I love it the way that modern humans think that they invented No, they literally invented the wheel what they did, but you know so just because someone in LA is doing yoga drinking coconut water everyone just thought that coconut water is a new thing. You know, you've been drinking water Have a coconut since you know coconut trees evolved so and the same with mushrooms No, but I want them to come back into the mainstream. I want people to discover them because actually in our, in our very hectic lifestyles that are full of external stressors and nasties, you know now more than ever, we need to look back to nature for natural solutions to help support us. We can't rely all the time on pharmaceutical companies, we can't rely on this pill popping society where it's like, if I've got a headache if I feel tired, but to take something instant, we need to start getting back to using food as medicine. The reason why Socrates I think, said that, you know, back in the day in Greece 3000 4000 years ago, because it is the food we're literally curious and healers, and there's nothing in nature that we can't utilise, to help us keep us functioning at our best and I think the rise of more functional foods and more Herbes and eating more plants and just generally having this plant focused attitude. It's how we're going to drive the world forward and survive, which is kind of important.
Jim Moore 45:58
Indeed, is tedious. How difficult is it to get hold of these mushrooms
Zoey Henderson 46:03
I have to go to like some dark little corner and a little guy scurries out and drops them off on a pretty easy pretty easy that you know they are cultivated all over the world China are the biggest cultivators of them because they believe in them within Chinese medicine and for for Connery purposes a lot longer than anyone else. But there's awesome amazing cultivators and producers in North America and we use mushrooms from Scandinavia from Finland that growing in organic growth forests are there and it's it's a wonderful process so actually pretty easy to get them now
Jim Moore 46:38
mm hmm it just wonder this sounds so incredible. I'm sort of almost amazed that I haven't Yeah, I haven't heard more of them they're not in mainstream culture in some massive pharmaceutical wasn't branded them as a something that they could sell in
Zoey Henderson 46:56
statens mushrooms you know medicine comes from mushrooms, antibiotics penicillin comes from a mushroom you know there's so much fun guy I should say rather than machine there's so much fun guy in modern medicine and they have managed to isolate some of the compounds from it. But like everything we're in this world where you know we still can't really claim and say chogha in our beer helps support your immune system even though there's a functional level of chogha in our beers and if you have quite a few who are weak in your you know supplementing with other things you are getting a functional benefit and after a while your immune system will probably fare better for having it than not having it but because everything is is painted and controlled by Big Pharma you have to be super careful what you say you know it's not an approved yeah yeah so for you know like vitamin C is now approved to say and will support immunity but mushrooms are so my kind of purpose now is to be as many places I can talk about this machine so people are educated around and seeing the studies that have been done on them and then you know by association people will start to see okay foods that contain them are going to give me a functional benefit and then hopefully get more people hopefully after some of the show people will Google functional mushrooms Reishi Chaga lion's mane and see you know the amazing places that you can buy supplements and integrate them into your diet because they helped me in a in a load of ways and I can just sing their praises all day long as you can
Jim Moore 48:24
Yeah, I'm definitely going to be one of those people googling afterwards That's amazing. The alcohol free nature you've you've covered it a couple of times in terms of like your personal preference and you know having a taste for beer but not a particular love for the effects of alcohol and so on. Is this is that a growing trend that you're seeing is there you know when you were coming up with the product was it very important to you that you thought you know I know from personal perspective it probably was but was it also kind of like commercially Did you see enough opportunity there? Is there is that is the lower no alcohol beer market growing?
Zoey Henderson 49:03
Yeah, it's still a small market but within the non alcoholic category you know, the beer market beer category is the fastest growing one globally. You know, there are a lot of countries who've been drinking non alcoholic beer for a long time the biggest markets are Spain and Germany. But there are huge swathes of the world that now want to start drinking products that have been off limits to them whether that's because they don't drink alcohol from religious regions or countries like Asia where alcohol is just not the big thing like it is you know, in the West and for me, I saw that there were more mindful consumers but what happened it was the chicken in the egg really I think people have wanted to be more mindful for a longer period of time you know, think all this time so you go I really don't want to drink tonight but I'm going out for someone's birthday I'm going to meet someone at the pub. And because there were no nice options for an adult soft drink apart from most syndrich pints of coke or night get very mouth I'm not gonna drink you know, I was just used to pints of soda water line. It's very boring. It's very inspiring. And because of this mess That's been interwoven to our society, you genuinely feel like you're missing out somehow, because you're not drinking alcohol. You know, when you miss out on, you know, x, y and Zed and people then just defaulted and either didn't go out felt miserable, or they just came was now when you go out and you see, you know, three or four non alcoholic beers, maybe there's one on draft, maybe there's really nice non alcoholic spirits. You can have a rum and coke or you could have, you know, a gin and tonic, but you're getting all these flavours without the alcohol. I think you're seeing people make more mindful decisions that as well as like with the plant based movement coupled with social media millennial or I think we're just millennials I think elder millennials, we're on the cusp of it. Is it Gen Z, people who are in their 20s now, you know, it's not the culture that was when I was at university, you can't wait for the club. Now you're so scared that there's gonna be a picture of you puking and have been around the back of a club, that there's no way that you want to get it because it's going to be on Instagram before you even wipe the sick off your chin. So it was like people just aren't in that drinking culture anymore, which is great. Lots of loads, less mistakes will be made. People are very conscious of that. And I think again, with that market, companies are looking at the consumers and the future. And they're not stupid, you know, Heineken, Guinness, Molson Budweiser, all these companies are spending 10s of millions of pounds on on our product developed, Gordon's have just released a non alcoholic gin, they would not be investing in this as the future of their companies, without it actually being a really valuable segment. So I think I saw the future, I also selfishly saw a product that I wanted to have. Yeah, and I thought, you know, I, I want to be conscious about something I'm putting out into the world. And drinking is fun. And sometimes it's not fun. And if you have an addiction, it's definitely not fun for you and your family, and everyone involved. And I just thought I want to put a product out to the world, that's going to do some good. And even though if you've got an alcohol brand, that's great. I'm not saying you're a bad person, you know, everyone has a duty and their own personal responsibility to how they consume products and other things that they do. But I just thought I want to put something out there that's actually doing something and helping push something forward. So you know, no sugar, no additives, no fillers, no animal products, no gluten, the gluten thing. You know, I'm not gluten intolerant. I love a big, big bit of bread and a bowl of pasta. But I know if you are celiac or gluten intolerant, it's a nightmare. And it's a really horrible experience. And even if you're not gluten intolerant, drinking lots of beers and the amount of gluten in it, that's what makes you feel bloated. And that's what makes her tummy feel a bit bubbly. So I just wanted to remove that out of it altogether. And it's easy to do naturally as well. So for me, it was very much kind of creating that future forward products. And also putting somebody asked me Oh, would you think about doing a lower ABV or, you know, a four or 5% beer with the mushrooms, and all the benefits that you get from adaptogens to helping your immune system to helping with your sleep patterns, the helping with your hormone, and endocrine system? Those are the things that are called diminishes. So really, then you just have a product that was a massive, right, so it just wouldn't there wouldn't be any point. And I think the the lessons and the things that the mushrooms have to teach us and the benefits of them, I think would be wasted when you're going to cancel that out.
Jim Moore 53:24
There enough. I haven't drunk for nine years. So I'm actually I'm pretty excited about
Zoey Henderson 53:30
that box sent off to you
Jim Moore 53:33
know, I wasn't fishing for a bar though. I'm, yeah, I'm definitely your market. I'm very excited to try. So on that note, where would folks go about finding out a bit more, perhaps learning a bit about mushrooms as well along the way, but importantly, finding out more about the beer and and picking some up. So
Zoey Henderson 53:54
we launched DTC direct to customer through a website because suddenly there was no there was no on trade, there were no restaurants and bars open when we launched. So you can go to www.function.com. And you can check out our eBay shop there. There's also loads more information on the website about our products and about the mushrooms. And I've included links to scientific peer reviewed papers as well because it's important that when you're talking about the benefits of something, I don't want anyone to think it's a bit woowoo or you know, it's just I've got this information somewhere. All the information I've got and everything I talk about is always from peer reviewed scientific papers, you know, published that have come out with actual scientific studies on these benefits. So there's lots of links on there. You can also go to Planet organic we launched in London last week, which is cool. So you can go into any of those stores and pick them up. In fact, please do help drive myself. And I've actually just started my own podcast my own show called The M word. And we're doing a show each month it's on I am sound on YouTube and every week every month, I'm talking To an entrepreneur, psychonaut researcher, brand ambassadors working with mushrooms and working to kind of make a more fun guy forward future and talking about it. So lots of different places.
Jim Moore 55:14
I love it. Well, thanks so much. So you've taught me an awful lot about mushrooms is it's been great to chat to you. I'll put all the links to To find out more on the show notes. But until Until next time, thank you so much.