Natalie Kraus

Natalie Kraus

Sat, 9/11 6:13AM • 57:25

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

vegan, people, podcast, retreat, thinking, realise, life, conversation, talking, feel, questions, yoga, hear, veganism, kraus, surfing, moment, climate change, husband, college

00:17

Hello, my name is Jim, this is my podcast the bloody vegans. You're very welcome to it. Each week I'll be travelling ever deeper into the world of veganism, discovering along the way, a multitude of viewpoints from the political and ethical to the practical. I'll be doing this through a series of conversations, each aiming to further illuminate my understanding, and hopefully yours, of all things plant centric, and his week is no different. So this week, I'm going to be chatting with Natalie Kraus, the host, producer of here for more podcast, amongst many, many other things. She's also been a head gymnastics coach, her high school is a yoga teacher. And she is just embarking upon a project in which she's essentially designed a surf and yoga retreat. I think is in Hawaii we're talking about in the podcast so correct me if I'm wrong, but yeah, just just incredibly talented individual with with a with an eye on so many different projects. And yeah, really take somebody who's kind of taken control, if you like of their of their destiny, I just found it a really inspirational story. So before we get into the episode, just a little bit of admin on November the 27th. The green gazelles are participating in the big green clash which is a rugby match against the Rosslyn Park, side over in sort of southwest of London, that kind of area. And it's a ticketed a various 15 pounds of ticket for your 15 pounds you get a wonderful live rugby match between the world's first vegan rugby team, the green gazelles and Rosslyn Park, as well as live music. There'll be bars there'll be food entertainment, or 100% vegan event so do buy your tickets over on green gazelles rugby club.com, that's green gazelles rugby club.com I think that's all the admin actually. Well, one final piece actually just launched over on Apple podcasts, I believe it should be live now do do take a look. You can if you wish to support the podcast, become a patron over there you can become a bloody vegan. And what that entails is for the small some of 99 p a month I think it is you get early access to episodes, there'll be some bonus episodes that will pop up from time to time that'll be exclusive for subscribers. And ultimately you get to keep the lights on over here at bloody vegans towers. So please go ahead and support if of course you can, would be very much appreciated. Anyway, let's go on to the business when in hand with it. Without further ado, here's a conversation between me and Natalie Kraus. Start with a little bit of your personal journey into the world of veganism what's kind of brought you here?

03:30

Yeah, well I love that question because it started with a lot of conflict actually. So I've been vegan for this month it'll be three years. So now I'm well into the world but how it started was my sister bringing it up at a casual family day at the waterpark, believe it or not, and this is so ingrained in my brain because I was a college athlete I was a gymnast, my entire childhood growing up into into college I did acrobatics and tumbling and I felt like I knew how to eat as an athlete I knew how to eat healthy I knew what an athlete needed to feel their body and that was very based around animal proteins and making sure I had you know the chicken and vegetables too but always that protein piece right? And so I remember showing up at the waterpark and my family and I we were all in the car and talking about what we were going to have for dinner that night you know kind of planning ahead and my sister kind of just threw in there very left field at the time. You know, I don't I don't know if I'm gonna have chicken tonight. And I was like, oh, okay, why not? She's like, Oh, you know, I just your body doesn't actually really need it and we're going to have like potatoes and all these other veggies and, and it immediately like me being a competitive person sparked this this dialogue that lasted the entire A day. And she had become fascinated by vegetarian and veganism through some YouTubers that she followed. And that's what they were doing. And so she had learned a lot about it. And she wasn't vegetarian, even vegetarian quite yet. But it was something that was fascinating her and so I asked her all of the questions that anybody who hears the word vegetarian or vegan ask, where's your protein? What about this? And where are the ethics and, you know, all these questions. And you know, at the end of the day, I wasn't vegan by the end of the day, but I was really fascinated by it, and I just something was had turned in me, because something that I thought I knew so well, was now completely in question. And that kind of sparked the journey to get me to where I am now, which is vegan for three years.

05:55

Good given how, you know, ingrained it was in you know, that sort of traditional sense of eating like an athlete, etc, the clean eating the protein, the animal protein, all the rest of it, given that that was kind of ingrained in you from from a young age, and it worked, you know, like, you know, from your experience you had been fit healthy, exceeding in your sport, you know, and as an athlete, a great level. Well, I'm just intrigued as to like, how long it then took you from, okay, I'm super fascinated by this thing. There's this era of competition. There's this era of curiosity. And it sounds like as somebody who's kind of like an achiever and someone who's competitive, you kind of thought, let's, I need to find out about this, even if even if it's just so that I can say that it's wrong, I need to find out. How long was that process before you realised Actually, I can exceed at the same level as I was before,

06:57

you know, in retrospect, it wasn't that long. I graduated from college in 2017. So that was like kind of the end of my collegiate athletics career. And that conversation with my sister happened shortly thereafter. And so it was kind of that time leaving college athletics moving into whatever was next for me, that I started picking up maybe because I was done with school, you know, I started picking up the research on this other thing. And so I ended up going and coaching the same sport that I had been a part of right out of college. And so as I moved into that role, it was fascinating because that's when I started to adopt being vegetarian. And I remember at, like, my last meat meal that I had, it was the only option because I was at this event that I was volunteering at and didn't know I was gonna have to be there all day. And the only literally the only food they had was like a hot dog or hamburger. And I remember having it. And that was like, the first time that I felt like guilty for eating it, because I had now learned so much. And so up until that it was kind of dabbling with vegetarian meals and, and that day was like, okay, no, I can't do this anymore. And I went vegetarian, and shortly after I went vegan, so the whole process, I mean, it was like six months, eight months, maybe of learning and kind of easing in. It wasn't just like, as one day I was not vegan in one day, the next day it was, but which I think was really important for my journey, because it was like a lot of trial and error and seeing what worked and what didn't. And at the end of the day, everything did work. You know, so there was nothing It was like, Oh, well, this lifestyle is working great. So why would I go back to that if all this information that I'm learning now is telling me that it's healthy? And yeah, so anyways, that was kind of a tangent, but yeah,

09:05

was it was there a particular kind of argument, you know, whether environmental ethical, nutritional that, that you remember kind of tipping you over the edge, if you like,

09:15

yeah, you know, it really started I mean, now it's kind of a blend of all three. My husband majored in environmental science in college. And so that was something that I mean, he wasn't vegan yet, either. But that was something that both of us were passionate about, about this environmental aspect. And so that in combined with the ethical standpoint, it was again, it was just too much information to ignore, the more we learned, the less we could turn away from it and just continue to kind of sweep past it, it felt wrong. And so it was probably initially those environmental and more ethical reasons, but the more I learned, the more I saw the health point as well. And so now if I It was really beneficial for these two big things but also for my health IT WAS it just became a no brainer at the end of it

10:08

did you get kind of asked questions quizzed about it from you know when you when you went back to to kind of your your athletic career if you like and pick that up as a coach yeah we get kind of get inquisitive how you know what why are you going down this route surely that can't that can't be an effective way to train and when you get in those kind of questions and when people pretty open to it

10:29

yeah a million questions and and from both sides of it people who were open to it and just were curious Oh what is that that you're doing like it seems to be working for you tell me about it really wanting to know and then the complete other side that doesn't make any sense that's not right you know your plant food is gross so both sides of and not just from the athletics you know, from my family I think family's been one of the toughest was you know, both me and my husband have big families and so whenever there's family gatherings and someone else to tell it, you know, and we kind of would, we would try our best to kind of keep it to ourselves like we're just going to we're not going to be the difficult vegans we're just going to bring our own food or but then it inevitably like you show up a place and there's nothing there or someone offers you something Oh, I can cook for you. And you're like it's not that your food is bad. It's just that we're not going to be eating it. So a lot of kind of sticky conversations that now we feel so much more equipped to handle and more confident I think in ourselves and our choices and a lot more people know it as you know just a normal thing especially for us you know me and him so yeah, it's been a weird field to navigate.

11:49

Yeah, absolutely. You raise a really interesting point there and I'd love to get your kind of you know hear about your experience in in this particular subject. But when you first go vegan there's always a kind of everybody's sort of who you meet who is omnivorous tends to treat you as the you know the font of all knowledge when it comes to veganism even though you've only might have only been doing it for a short period of time they want to know you know all of the weather all of the ethical arguments hold water whether the environmental aspects are real or not I read this article I heard that that's not effective I heard that you can't get the right protein source all these kind of things and you do go through a bit of what I certainly did anyway went through a bit of a period of like almost going into conversations almost a bit embattled from the beginning thinking okay right I'm ready like I've I've done my homework etc. I'd love to hear a bit about your your journey in that sort of space and how you've navigated it over the over the course of three years

12:52

yeah, absolutely. Just like you said it was kind of gearing up for battle every time you know and and the first probably subconsciously you know, and then it became this as the questions just the same questions over and over it was like Okay, these are probably the questions we're going to get how are we going to handle and it was automatically entering into this like defensive place like I need to defend what I'm doing and you know, deep down feeling bad for I don't know if that's the right term, but feeling like I'm causing a problem I'm causing discomfort for someone because what I believe now with veganism, like I'm doing this for for the environment for my health for the animals and that is such a touchy point for other people because it's like you know, if I'm doing it to save an animal then what are you doing and people know that people know that and it's really tough to swallow that's why I battled my sister so hard in the beginning because the same thing and you know, I think as as time went on, we did inevitably gather more information and so we got more ingrained you know, in ourselves like we know why we're doing this for ourselves and, and I was really thankful to have my husband throughout this whole journey with me My sister is also vegan, my other sisters vegetarian, his sister ended up going vegan too. So we kind of had this little community start to form where we could lean on each other and we had to have these conversations of okay when we show up at at this at grandma's house, you know, we're at the family gathering. We need to just do our own thing and if it comes up like Be polite, like be a little bit where the activist in us wants to be like this is why we're doing it you know, and but almost like tone it down a little bit and not you know, it is kind of to make other people comfortable because it is such a big topic and I feel like if you want to get something across You You kind of have to give it in small doses sometimes like enough to kind of pique the the interest like oh I didn't even think of that but not so much that you kind of scare people off so that's kind of the approach now and after three years it's feels a lot more natural to have those kind of conversations and even this kind of conversation you know I couldn't have done this in the same way three years ago

15:26

well yeah, I think some of those experiences you sort of oh well I did anyway you feel a little bit like you know, you're probably the only person who's who's been through that and then the more vegans I kind of met the The more I heard that the stories were the kind of the same they had the same arguments like you said the the same 25 questions I swung at you every family gathering about you know whether it's protein whether it's you know, I heard about combine harvesters actually kill more animals that you know all those kind of they're all those kind of things so yeah, i think i think i think you're right is sort of if I personally we find find sort of comfort in talking to other vegans and hearing that story and like like you say it's an interesting choice I still battle this actually now. I don't know if you do it's just me but I still battle that that piece of what the right approach is you know, I feel like I feel like most of the time the sort of the right thing to do feels to like you know, to take people on us on a journey meet them where they are those kind of things and I think you know, that probably is most effective I kind of always used the kind of the sort of phrasing of like thinking about the minute before I went vegan I was probably pretty resistant until I'd made up my mind so actually did I want somebody sort of you know, preaching to me or trying to shock me or whatever but at the same token there's also part of me that thinks you know, particularly when I think about the climate change aspects and the you know, environmental aspects I sometimes do think we just don't have time I just want to I want to get I want to you know people need to understand and need to understand the gravity of it is that something you sort of you know, particularly given that your husband you came at it initially environmentally and then then the rest of it follow is that sort of your battle

17:18

I I'm so happy you brought this up because just yesterday I was at dinner with my dad and and he you know, just in the conversation he was like, Oh my gosh, I just read this article that said I forget the number of years that it is but in some amount of years, climate change will be irreversible. Did you guys know that? And we kind of looked at each other differently. Yes, yes, we knew that and we've told you you know and we kind of laughed because we were like Yep, we and he and he was like Yeah, okay, I figured you guys probably knew that but it was such this turning point of like oh my gosh, that finally stuck in his head you know, that finally was something that just all of a sudden it hit him in a different way and I think it has so much to do like you said meeting people where they're at what what are they going through in life right now like what information can they take in and for some reason, on that day it hit him harder than it had ever hit him before. And so to your question of you know, whether to give people little doses or whether to make it you know, like we're running out of time I think you do have to navigate it per situation. You know each every situation is different and really like what you know, you will start an argument if you but if you know that you're gonna start an argument if you're ready to start an argument maybe that's okay with you. Who are you talking to? Is it your grandparents like maybe you don't want to pick a fight with them? But is it your your friend you know, a longtime friend maybe you can pick a fight with them, you know, and it's because it's all in good fun. So if you're gonna ruin relationships, that's probably not the way to approach it. You know, and you do have to, because then you don't want to be like, Oh my gosh, we can't invite them to anything because they're not gonna like what we eat and they're going to judge us for not eating vegan, you know, and that's kind of a slippery slope to walk to. So I think it kind of depends on the situation. Yeah.

19:26

I think you're so right. Actually, as you said it is this sort of words that popped into my head are like emotional intelligence I think there's this there's sort of think about the most effective people at convincing me of a of an argument in the course of my my life and whether it's veganism or outside it's always when they've there's an emotional intelligence to their approach, and you can see it when they deal with other people. There's a with some people that choose to take a harder line because they know that that person's, they need that right now. And I guess it's like thinking about your sporting background you know your athletics your gymnastics is kind of like a great coach almost is. is in that kind of headspace? I don't know if that would be a good analogy.

20:11

Totally. No, I completely agree. And, you know, you think about it too, like different opportunities to have almost like a learning experience, you know, whether that's like, when we got married, we had to decide, Okay, are we going to serve all vegan food? Or do we serve non vegan food as well? Like, we don't really support that. But is is that worth the battle? You know, in it? It was this weird thing to navigate. And still, I don't know what like the right or wrong answer is we ended up serving a mix of both. Now three years into veganism what I do the same? I don't know. So it is this really odd grounds to navigate. And I think you do have to be emotionally intelligent when you approach situations to know, okay, am I What am I hoping to get out of this? You know, am I hoping that someone shows up and is like, Oh, it's all vegan, like, now, now, I realise how delicious vegan food is, and I'm happy? or could they show up and be really upset? You know, and not that that event or that particular thing is like about this person? But you know, it's I think we have to be aware of how we approach these situations. But the more we can encourage it, the more we can always have vegan options on the table, have it be a normal part of the conversation, you know, okay, we're going to have a dinner party, like, what are the different? Is there a vegan option? Just make sure there is one, you know, and maybe maybe that is part like becoming more normal to help it just become integrated, and then people don't have to think about it. They're just like, Oh, do we have a vegan option? You know?

21:55

Yeah, absolutely. Obviously, I'd love to give you on this actually that. Do you think that there's a more compelling argument in in kind of 2021, then then another? Because and the reason I asked is so I was chatting to somebody from the the vegan society organisation based over in the UK here, about an amazing report they've put together called planting value in our food system. And it's all about if we, if we had to rip up the rulebook on the current food system, the food production system, the distribution system, what could that policy look like? And they've kind of they've readied that policy for, you know, in the event, ultimately, a government, whether it be through climate change, or whatever needs to take that on, it's kind of here's the policy ready made. And that and the author of it is a guy called Dr. Alex Lockwood. And he said, I think when you're thinking about people, society on mass, that climate change is probably the most effective in terms of a short term, likelihood to get people on board. What's your view? I'd love to get your perspective on it.

23:08

I think climate change is a huge one. It's, it's sad, I was reading this in a book The other day, it's kind of sad, but people won't just do what's right. Because they know it's good, necessarily. It was a book about podcasting, actually. And it said something about, you know, people who want to make these podcasts on really important topics, like Syrian refugees, or sexual abuse are these like topics that need to be talked about. But if the podcast is just on that, people won't listen to it. Like it won't be someone's favourite podcast, because it's a lot to take in. And the author described it like broccoli, how, you know, it's good for you. But you're not. You might not be grabbing it every time unless there's some other incentive. And I loved that, because I mean, I love broccoli, but not everyone does. And it's true, you know, so to just do like what's right, because you know, it's right, is it? Well, it would be awesome. If that was the solution. It's, it's clearly not, you know, and so I do think climate change is a huge, huge motivator for pursuing plant based eating. As we're seeing, you know, places go up and fire as we're seeing all this terrible stuff with the ocean and pollution and oil spills, like that is very visible evidence of this climate change where I think people then can wrap their head around it a little bit better. Whereas, you know, even with the animals like the ethical standpoint, it is visible like you can if you look at a slaughterhouse it's like you can see it but it's so easy to just like push over there and not pay attention to it. And then with your health Like that is another really great stance to take, oh, well, this is a really good proponent for your health. But what is like one of the biggest things with eating vegan is to benefit your long term health, right? That's not always visible right away. And so I've heard it firsthand from people that just say like, Well, you know, what's the saying, like, I'm here for a good time, not for a long time. You know, and it's like, Ah, so, though whatever's happening immediate, that we can see, it seems like those are the biggest motivators. So when you see bad things happening to the climate, it's like, okay, that's happening right now, like Turkey is on fire. What can we do? And if there's this option that is presenting itself, you know, maybe, maybe that's more motivating. So yeah,

25:50

yes, I'm with you is kind of a it's almost a depressing thought when you think about it, because you think why wouldn't people you know, there's enough there's enough slaughterhouse footage out there, there's enough talk of mistreatment of non human animals in all kinds of different walks of life, why would people just not do the do the right thing? But I do? I do think sometimes, unless something is come knocking on your door. like climate change? Yeah. Is at the moment. I wonder whether I also think you know, this point that you may raise there, I think it's fantastic one about messaging about the broccoli, I think is a really interesting one. And one I've certainly wrestled with, you know, thinking about podcasts, and you think about this, you know, what, what is it I'm trying to do? What kind of message Am I trying to get across? Who am I trying to reach? And then I think about sort of the podcasts I listen to personally, and they're often, you know, probably lighter. stuff that I put together myself, it's, it's more about, you know, people chatting who are talking about all kinds of different films and this than the other and if there's some broccoli dropped in there, then I'll probably take it. But some of the podcasts like you say that are pure broccoli. Maybe, maybe your diet sometimes you know, it's interesting. You raise it, yeah. More of amusing than a question that was, I'd love to. I'd love to hear a little bit about some of the some of the amazing stuff you do, because when I look through your CV, there's like, six or seven angles we could wish we could talk about you do so much. So I just I'd love to hear a little bit about some of the some of the things that you're up to at the moment. Yeah, surfing, in all cases. Incredible.

27:51

Well, thank you. First of all, I really appreciate it. I'm very much in multi passionate person and someone who came out of college or went into college with no real idea of like, what, what I was passionate about other than my one sport that I was doing, you know. And so, going through college, and now being out of college, it's been just real time to navigate that and try things out. And I'm very thankful for the support in my life and for my own ambition that's allowed me to go and just try things. So I've taught, I've taught, I've coached, I've coached college athletics for the sport that I did. I was a head gymnastics coach for my own High School gymnastics team. I'm a certified yoga instructor. I podcast I did a whole other bunch of things in there. Like being a virtual assistant, being an online coach before I kind of came to this world of podcasting, which I love. I love the podcast and it's, it's based on exactly this that we are a lot we are so much more than the boxes that society tells us to check off and we're more than just the title on our resume. You know, and we're told when we were young, we're still told today that if you're a career changer, you know, if you try a bunch of different things and you pivot really quickly, that that's a bad thing. And I disagree. I think that that is a really good thing because you get a lot of exposure to different things. And you try a lot and then you figure out what you like and what you don't like and you move on to the next thing. So right now it is that podcast here for more podcast is the title along with retreats which my husband and I are starting to put together. Our first one is this December in Mexico, it's a surfing yoga retreat, which are both really important parts of our lives. We're big surfers, Yoga has come into our lives from taking and me teaching and my husband getting into it probably because of me teaching. And that's a plant based retreat as well. So kind of just melting a lot of the things that we love into one and, and bringing a group of people together to experience those things that we love. So that's, that's what we're doing right now. That's what I'm doing right now.

30:24

I love this premise, and actually on a personal note is really has resonated with me recently, sort of being in a traditional career job, I've been, you know, in the same organisation for best part of a decade, and in the last kind of year or two, with the podcasting and so on, have been drawn to other projects and taking the bold move. I saw a post that you did a while back, are you talking about? What's wrong with having six or seven revenue streams, you know, six or seven things going on? And, and, and it just struck me as like, if I wish I had that kind of somebody giving me that advice? Well, you know, when I came out of like University, yeah, college, you know, because I think it's just, I don't know about you, but it just feels like a more fulfilling way to live, to live your life really to pursue multiple interests, because we'd like to say we're not, we're not just one, we're not one entity. I think often our careers sort of force us to be one entity. So again, it's more of a music inflection point, but but, you know, with that, with that in mind, thinking of the the podcast, you know, what was, at what, and thinking of the philosophy actually, was that something that just just appeared to you almost like you, you just because because it feels to me quite as quite an alien concept when I think about the traditional path to tread, you know, for think about conversations I've had with my parents throughout upbringing. So where did that come from? inspiration to be so varied, and it found it to be okay.

32:07

Yeah, that, you know, great question. It did it kind of it slowly developed, as the more I learned about myself, you know, going through college, and I got a master's degree and, and I pursued this route that was still untraditional, but more traditional, you know, it was a job and graduate school, and I had an internship and an office and just nothing that I did ever felt as, like, none of this stuff is what I'm gonna do. None of it. You know, and I have a master's degree in Public Health and and so one could argue that I am engaging in public health every day that I talk about these things, you know, but as far as the traditional routes for that, just nothing ever felt right. You know, even teaching yoga, I love teaching yoga, but I just knew like, there's something else there's something more. And it was a it was a while, before I realised like, Well, why can't I teach a little bit of yoga over here, but then also do this other thing, and also do this other thing. And there is such thing as spreading yourself too thin. But also, if you don't go out and try things, you never know, what could be. And so I think that's where some of it came from, was this. Like, searching for the feeling of almost like a high? Like, what's gonna give me that, that feeling of, of excitement, of fulfilment, you know, and I learned very quickly, it's not at this desk, you know, it's not, it's not over here. And I just kept searching, and I'm still searching. But I've been able to kind of land on what I was just talking about is just having a few different things. And not putting all this pressure on one thing. Like I I, Natalie Kraus and this role, and that is my whole life, like no, even if you are one thing, like maybe you're a dentist, you know, you still are so many other things. You might be a yogi, and a surfer, and whatever. And those are just as much a part of your life. So the actual title here for more came to me totally on a whim because I was starting a blog, actually not a podcast originally. And my husband and I were going to, we built out of van to go travel around the country, the US in I was like, I need remote income I need to make money online. So I quickly was like researching, like how to make remote income. And a blog was an idea that kept coming up, which did not work out for me. It's hard to make money from a blog, but other people do it. So it could be working for other people. But I just was like, I got to make a blog and I didn't know what to title it. And I was like, well, we're We're just here for more, we're here for more than, than what society tells us to do. And that's literally how it started. And it just continues to become more and more true every, every day.

35:12

It's a thought it just pops into my head as you as you, as you said, that, which is I think about, you know, every social setting you're ever in, you know, talk about weddings, and so on, you know, you're, you're, you're at someone's wedding. And the question everybody asks, Is what you do? And, and and the way even the way that's answered, our I'm a, I'm a dentist, like, that is what I am. Yes. It just shows you how deeply ingrained that that that notion that we are our work that we are here to work, you know, in, in a system, it just shows how deeply ingrained that is. He said, I must say it's incredibly Sage thought process to have gone on straight out of college, I'm very impressed and could be further along in life that I have met, I've met you I was younger.

36:14

Well, thank you. No, you know, it's, I don't, I'm grateful for it, too. I've had a number of people actually say that to both me and my husband, like, Oh, my gosh, you guys are, we're 25 and 26. And they're like, wow, you know, this thing. And in my head, I'm like, how do not more people think this way, you know, or no, this thing so I, I don't know exactly what it was that that brought me to here. You know, really, when you get down to it, but I'm grateful for it. Because even on the days that I feel stressed, and being an entrepreneur is really tough, I still would take this, you know, every time over being in an office. If that's for you, that's awesome, you know, but it's not for me, so I'm happy to have other options.

37:07

100% 100% Absolutely. I'd love to talk about the retreats a little bit, but like what when, when did that idea come up needs to be mentioned, it's relatively relatively new, first one planned. But where did the idea come from? And obviously these things are to, to kind of passions of yours in surfing and and yoga, etc. And to combine the two, if you kind of thought you know, we know we're community of people who these two passions absolutely align with. And there is a, almost a market for it, or again, is this just like, we're passionate about doing See, see who's interested,

37:46

you know, it's a little bit of both, I actually attended a retreat in Bali. In 2017, after I graduated college with my mom, we went to a surfing yoga retreat in Bali. And it was it was more of like a surf retreat. But then Yoga is just something they also offered. Yoga is so complimentary to to all athletics, you know, to stretch and to lengthen your body in different ways. And especially with surfing, I think they're really really complement each other. And, you know, to just when you get into like the metaphorical part of it, sports athletics are fast, they're they're quick paced, you know, fast twitch muscles, and competitive. And yoga can be fast, but it can also be the total opposite. It's like slow down. Whenever I hear someone say, yoga is too slow. For me. I think it was too slow for me too. And that's when I realised I needed it most, you know, to just be with yourself. And so yeah, I think they complement each other really well. And after I attended that retreat, I'm also someone who really likes to plan things. Whenever there's like, Oh, where are we going for dinner and my family they're like Natalie will you find the restaurant you know, you know how to read the Yelp reviews, make sure it's vegan, you know, make sure it's, it's good. And I take that on joyfully because I do feel like I can do it better than others. I feel like it's a strong suit for me. So planning in in combination with attending a retreat that I had a wonderful experience at. After that retreat, I became a yoga teacher, I got more into surfing, it was just something in the back of my mind of like, maybe one day, that would be cool. And then we had the pandemic and we still have the pandemic. And it's this massive thing of no travel. But I have some other friends in the yoga space, who also run retreats, some who have been in it for many years, and I've kind of watched how they've done it and how they've started to bring them back even through this time. And I just kept thinking like why Why couldn't I do that and I Don't have a I'm not you know actively teaching yoga so I don't have like this massive community of Yogi's and surfers. But you know, to your point it is something that both me and my husband are very passionate about and we know like if we love it there's got to be other people who love it too. And and it's not a new thing you know, retreats have been around for years and years and years. So it's, you know, we're like, okay, there there will be people. So yeah, so we back in like February maybe we started getting really serious about it and researching and finally decided on a place and put a deposit down and now we're about halfway filled for our retreat for this December. Yeah, so and all beginner surfers, we weren't sure we made it like open to all levels, like oh, you could be a beginner, you can be advanced. And the people that have signed up so far are all beginners which we think is super cool that people are wanting to to kind of step outside their comfort zone and try this sport. So we're very excited for it.

41:07

100% It sounds idyllic To be honest, yeah, combining the combining the three things of kind of Mexico surfing and yoga is where and for really in the streets to me, what more can anyone want, I love I agree. Thinking about like that, again, I just want to come back to the the kind of the, the setup of it, and you being you know, entering this kind of entrepreneurial space at a time when there's a global pandemic. That for me is like a terrifying concept. And other than those lots of people in this, you know, who are taking stock of where they're at in life and in the pandemic, I think is forced a bit of that self reflection. But I'd love to sort of get your get your view on, you know, what being an entrepreneur has been, like setting up a new business setting up an organisation at at this kind of time, like how has that been? Have you have you kind of as it been a scary process? And I guess like to your point is still still being in it, you know, how is it How is it felt?

42:17

It has felt every emotion probably until we started, you know, kind of the entrepreneurial journey before the pandemic ever came around. So, you know, what started as one thing has now evolved tenfold and especially with the with the retreats, you know, they're always in the back of our head, we're like, are we actually going to be able to go on this thing? You know, is it or is it gonna get shut down? And you know, you never know which, two years ago, no one would ever have thought, you know? And so yeah, it's been scary. But I also know, if I just sit here and don't try to go for it. And then I could have gone for it. I'll just be like, Matt, why don't I just try, you know? And so you kind of do that, like, best case scenario, worst case scenario, and it they just the best outweighs what the worst could be. So yes, it's scary, it is challenging, especially to try to market travel to people who, you know, aren't sure, like whether they should leave their homes or whether they should travel. And obviously, like, we're paying attention to it. So we're not trying to put anyone in harm's way. And we're making sure all those regulations are, are up to speed. But um, yeah, it's scary. But it also is like the pandemic, not just for our businesses, but for like our van pursuits that allowed us to, to build our van and to go travel in it. At the time my husband was in, I mean, I was teaching yoga and everything. So I had not the traditional nine to five. But he did, he was in an office, you know, nine to five every day. And so the only time our van would get worked on was on the weekends, not really at night, because we were too tired. And it took a long time to build. So it's like the pandemic was this opportunity for him to be out of the office, he ended up leaving his job. And we were like, okay, we're just going to work on this thing. And same with our businesses, we're just going to work on this thing and learn everything we can. So in the same sense, you know, it was this opportunity to kind of shut the rest out and just like this is what we're doing. And so as a result, you know, kind of how you were saying, like, I have all these different hats and all these different things on my resume. But that was possible, probably largely because we weren't doing anything else. We couldn't travel you know, we couldn't do these things. And so now we've gotten to learn a lot more about business a lot more about ourselves. It's totally overwhelming, you know, when you start getting into taxes and contracts and legalities, you know, but you, you know, you just take it one step at a time, and we're making our way.

45:15

Absolutely. I mean, I guess I guess you both are testament to this, but I'd love to get your view on it. Do you think actually with the benefit of, you know, maybe in a few years time with the benefit of, of hindsight, and you know, obviously accepting, putting aside though there's been dreadful, dreadful tragedy and loss through this pandemic, but do you think there will out the end of it, there will be a lot of people who've actually made some pretty bold decisions. And off the back of this moment of reflection, you know, what do you think there's an element of, for many people, they were just on this, this treadmill almost have this, this is modern life, the nine to five is the offices that I am a whatever, insert profession here, and then they've, you know, they've just been forced to hit this pause button, and they have this moment of reflection, like I said, with all the caveat of, the less the less positive stories, but do you think that is something that will kind of come out of this overtime?

46:22

Yeah, I think yes. And no, I think it I think it goes both ways. I think some people will take that, the opportunity that they had to kind of reassess their life and reassess, Oh, do I like working remote? I didn't know this was an option, what can I do with this? And they'll run with that, you know, and just the notion of, kind of, like, life is short, and you never know what's going to happen. And so to really just grab life by the by the reins and run with it. 100% but then I think there's another group to that, that will just step right back into the office, but maybe, you know, kind of talking it through out loud, maybe it's because they realise that is something they value more than they thought they did. So maybe they felt like stuck in this routine. And they didn't like the office. But then once they didn't have that anymore, maybe they realised Oh, actually, that was serving me pretty well. So you know, at the end of the day, I think we've a majority of us have learned something you know about ourselves and about the way we work so I would hope that that kind of continues that more mindful, like conscious decision rather than just clocking in clocking out every day, whatever it is that you're doing.

47:44

Yeah, 100% but the mindfulness element of it the the awareness of where we're at, I think is you know, for me personally is probably the biggest reflection is and like you said some some things you realise some things you were resentful off that you realise that actually you you loved you know, I was talking to somebody a while back and they were talking actually about their commute. And they were saying that the commute that they used to hate in there to train into London and it was an hour own etc. Actually was was like their moment of like, decompressing of reflection light, and that they didn't have this point. And they actually because they were walking, they were working from home decided that they were going to create a commute for themselves they're going to just like walk around a certain part of their their where they live, just to give themselves the same period of time you know, it out it strikes me as kind of like, as fascinating the way that we fall into patterns that we Some are beneficial for us, some aren't. But we fall into these patterns and often didn't like don't necessarily reflect on them. So I think it's just an interesting is it is an interesting, kind of, like mass psychological experiment in a strange way. As much as it's full of horrors at the same time, but yeah, caveated with that, obviously, but yeah, yeah.

49:08

No, I was just gonna say I agree with you. And those kind of like that moment where you had all this time at home, maybe and you're like, what am I doing? I would have loved this time at home a month ago, and now am I tired of being at home and, and so it's made me ask the question, I'm sure other people too, like, you know, what are we what are we working so hard for? Are we working hard for time at home? And are we working hard to retire and then what? You know, and or we want to go take a trip to somewhere maybe, okay, and then what you know, and what are those other things that you can do to fill your time that will still give you a lot of life other than your career, right? Because that's just one part of you. So yeah, it's something that I still am thinking about all the time. Yeah that mindfulness piece right

50:03

yeah me too It feels like a therapy session but but but but absolutely look for that very reason that that is something that is definitely like been on on my mind is what is it that we are what we're here for what are we working for? What's the end goal? Is it that the two days of the week at the end of the seven are the that's when you live right? And is that is that right? Like you know, do we want to reduce it to kind of like two sevenths of our all time is the time when we enjoy ourselves and the rest of it is kind of like the grind to get to that and like you know you think about you know, in the UK we're probably luckier actually other than some some sort of corporate jobs in the states where we get probably five or six weeks holiday a year but even that five or six weeks out 52 Yeah, you know, that's when you live like that right? I don't know and I appreciate that and maybe you could argue is is is the luxury of you know being in a certain position in life and so on and so forth. Absolutely not everybody has that luxury of choice but but it is one that sort of sticks sticks with me a little bit of thinking it's interesting feels timely speaking to you at this particular moment where I'm having this psychological kind of like examination of myself very interesting conversation and and i think you know here for more is probably turned up at the right time for me so I'm grateful for you

51:39

I'm happy to hear that and yeah that those concepts are just as much for me as they are to help others right to to help other people think about it as much as I am listening to the advice myself it's twofold

51:55

well sometimes it wasn't about you but sometimes doing something like a podcast where you where you are laying out these thoughts actually helps you to to understand them yourself almost you know you again it's not something pre podcast that I would have ever ever done yes it's sort of talk about some of these these concepts and thoughts that were in my mind or listen to other people in this kind of way. So it's kind of its own learning experience as well and if you found that Oh yeah,

52:22

totally every episode I learned something new you know, especially when they can be conversational like this like that's what I love to that's how my show is and I learned something new every time and it's it's different when you're you know you almost get kind of like nervous for podcast episode two you're like I'm gonna I'm gonna be whether you're the person recording or the the guest you know you're you're like diving into these things that maybe you haven't said out loud before. Yeah, maybe you haven't really or maybe you've thought about it but it's been inside and to put it into words it's like Did I just say that? Did I just hear that it's really cool though it's I there's nothing like it I think podcasting is awesome.

53:10

Yeah, me too. It's definitely it's like I find it a fantastic medium because it gives you this kind of like you know creative you know as a creator of one is kind of its own creative outlet so moment of self reflection its own learning experience all the things we just talked about and then is as a listener to them and I'm an avid listener of podcasts have been for for years it's kind of there's not the pressure on it of like other kind of you know, creative forms you know, there's not like a few if you read a book you watch your film there is a sense that you you need to be there you know it's not to say that you're going to ignore the podcast at all but it's much more like being in a room with somebody you know like just partaking in in a different conversation that you you wouldn't have been invited to otherwise that's the concept of it I love you know whether it's in in your podcast or or any other I do you love that concept. On that note, we we've talked to how great is we definitely need to tell some folks where abouts they'd go to get hold of here for more listen to listen to the episodes I think there's where you're in the is it 60 I want to say 67 ish I might be wrong around that sort of number

54:31

62 is where we're headed. So very close. Yeah, that was a real really close guest Yeah, so my podcast website is just here for more podcast.com and that's probably the easiest because right on the website it has like apple or Spotify or wherever you listen, you know, you can just open it from there but it's it's available all those places and Instagram is where I hang out all the time. That's That's just my name Natalie j Kraus and yeah that's where I am talking to people and sharing just life you know cuz I like connecting on that personal level as well so those are those are the places for me and yeah here for more podcast If you or anyone man I always am looking for cool people to interview so it's like if you are listening and you know someone send them my way cuz that's that's what this is all about is just continuing those conversations

55:35

100% love it absolutely love it you love to do a few live from the retreat as well. Be cool to hear the oceans in the background. Wonderful. Love it naturally. Thank you so much for your time it's been absolute pleasure chatting with you thoroughly recommend folks come in, check out the podcast. If they can book a slot on the retreat. They absolutely should do that too because that sounds idyllic. And, and check you out on Instagram too. So you know thank you so much and hopefully speak to you again soon.

56:08

Yeah, thanks so much for having me, Jim. It's been wonderful talking to you.