Veganuary Stories - Vegan Chef School Graduate and former Veganuary partipcant Jules Fourey-Jones
Jules Fourey-Jones
Tue, 1/25 5:57AM 45:47
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
vegan, bit, people, vegans, veganism, realised, eat, nutrition, vegan chef, vegetarian, animals, veg, terms, vegetarianism, thought, flavours, point, good, read, easy
SPEAKERS
Jim Moore, Robot, Jules Fourey-Jones
Jim Moore 00:02
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Robot 01:12
This is a bloody vegans production
Jim Moore 01:29
Hello, my name is Jim, this is my podcast The Bloody Vegans. You're very welcome to it. Each week, I'll be travelling ever deeper into the world of veganism, discovering along the way a multitude of viewpoints from the political and ethical to the practical. I'll be doing this for a series of conversations, each aiming to further illuminate my understanding, and hopefully yours of all things plant centric and this week is no different. This week, I spoke to Jules Fourey-Jones is a former Veganuary participant and part of our Veganuary stories series. This is the second to last one for the month of January. I just just noticed actually just as an aside, I got a notification through the other day saying that the Veganuary 2022 campaign has seen a record number of signing 600,000 People had signed up on the website to participate in Veganuary, which is truly truly incredible stuff. So hopefully, we're moving the needle. And if you are new to veganism and come to this podcast for a bit of advice, then welcome. I hope you enjoy it. There's loads and loads of episodes that might be of interest to you. Anyway, let's get back to
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it. So yeah, Jules was a former Veganuary participant. She was also a graduate at Chef Day Radleyâ€TMs vegan chef school. You'll remember Chef Day Radley from a previous episode, she is doing some incredibly pioneering work over there. So we talked a little bit about that. We talked about Julesâ€TM journey, how veganuary played a part and just have a general general lovely chat. So hope you enjoy it. Without further ado, here's a conversation between me and Jules Fourey-Jones.
Jules Fourey-Jones 03:27
I was an avid meat eater back in sort of up until 2015. I loved rare steaks, sushi, sashimi, and then literally I read a book and went vegetarian overnight. So I've kind of approached veganism through the vegetarian route initially, as I think probably a lot of vegans do. Yeah, it was literally a book that changed my perspective on everything. And I read the whole thing in one evening, woke up veggie. So that that was kind of my first step into the world of plant based food and eating lifestyle. And I was veggie for a year and a half then came across Veganuary I think it was on Facebook that I saw a few adverts for it and thought you know what, it's only a step further than vegetarianism. I'd kind of seen a couple of documentaries at this point as well. The Usual Suspects things like Forks Over Knives and Earthlings and I decided to do Veganuary 2017 I went in all guns blazing, you know, with a wristband and everything and I just realised that it really wasn't that much harder than being vegetarian I think cuz I'm a really avid cook as well. It was really easy to adapt to vegan food because I love being creative in the kitchen. So it was just a new challenge for me really. It was challenging on the people front and in particular friends and family. I've got a lot of French family in there, but really don't I understand you know, veganism, let alone vegetarianism, let alone veganism, I should say. And they were very concerned and kind of thought I'd gone a bit loopy. So that that was a bit of a challenge for a couple of years. But since then I've really come into my own I think during lockdown, I took that as an opportunity to sign up to the vegan chef school of excellence with Chef de Radley, who I think you've actually spoken to on one of your previous shows. So I did that. Yeah, it took about six months to complete the the chef diploma. And then I got so interested in in the vegan chef school that I did another course as well, the vegan nutrition diploma, which, again, a lot questions that people ask vegans is about nutrition and you know, where do you get your protein from? Where do you get your iron from your B vitamins, etc. So just having that as a, as an actual qualification to back me up when I'm having those unfortunate arguments. That, so that's been great. I also started an Instagram account, just taking pictures of everything that I eat, because obviously, you know, meat eaters sometimes they what do you actually eat and it's easy to just show them and try and talk them through what you can and don't eat. But yeah, so I've gone from Yeah, from meat eater to vegan and I think what's five years vegan one and a half veggie before then.
Jim Moore 06:19
What was the, what was the book of interest that triggered all of this?
Jules Fourey-Jones 06:23
It was skinny bitch by Kim Varner when I think and Rory fried. Right.
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Jim Moore 06:30
Right. What was the message that particularly resonated?
Jules Fourey-Jones 06:34
Yeah, that's a great question. So I mean, the, the reason I read the book in the first place, I was house sitting for a friend and I couldn't get her TV to work. So I was like, Okay, I'll have to read a book picked up this book, because it had quite sort of tongue in cheek title, obviously. And it didn't really claim make any claims to be about veganism or vegetarianism. It was just about weight management, basically. So I read it. And it kind of, it starts off with an introduction of the obvious things that you'd think about, like, you know, fats, and sugars and exercise. But then it started talking about dairy, the effects on the body of dairy, animal fats. And then out of nowhere, there's this chapter about abattoir workers. So there was actually excerpts from I think it was called Memoirs of an abattoir worker. And it was, it was, frankly, shocking, it was absolutely horrific. And these were memoirs that came from abattoir workers across the world, different sort of sizes of farms, etc. It just really kind of hit home that there's no such thing as this, Mythical McDonald's, you know, you know, farm where all the animals are treated really well, and they have a very happy life and death. Yeah, that that was the chapter that really shocked me and kind of gave me a bit of a kick up the backside to do something about it, I realised that I have a choice. So yeah, read the whole book in one evening woke up the next morning, vegetarian.
Jim Moore 08:01
Yeah, at the time, obviously, you know, you mentioned you went vegetarian, pretty much immediately after reading that book. And I can kind of understand reading, reading some of those kind of shocking accounts. Veganuary obviously came along a little bit later. And you mentioned there's a lot of documentaries along the way. Was it a bit of a surprise to you, when you started to learn about dairy and eggs and these other aspects that make up the kind of gap between vegetarianism and veganism?
Jules Fourey-Jones 08:30
Yes, definitely. I think when I went vegetarian, I I love cheese, and I enjoyed eggs. And I thought, you know, this is a compromise, really. But my view was that a which a lot of people have which, which is that, that dairy and eggs are a byproduct, a natural byproduct, the animals aren't harmed in the creation and the production of it. Which is, of course not the case. And the more research the more I saw documentaries, the more reading I've done on my own account, the more I realised, that's absolutely not true. That's something that we're led to believe that, you know, cows just create milk. Because their cows, I didn't realise that the cow had to be pregnant or nursing in order to create the milk. Same with hens, you know, the fact that hens are pumped with all kinds of chemicals to make them produce more eggs that lead to live very cruel, cruel circumstances, cruel environments. That again, I've just kind of brushed under my carpet. I think I didn't want to think about it. But what I realised the scale and the fact that it's not just the odd big farm in I don't know, in another country that I don't want to think about that's being cruel and keeping animals in these conditions. It's actually much more
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widespread and large scale than that. Yeah, that that really hit home to me and I realised that I was, yeah, if I was going to do the right thing, then I needed to do it. Go there go the whole way and go vegan.
Jim Moore 10:03
And how about Veganuary? What Why Why Veganuary? Why was that the sort of the jump off
point for you?
Jules Fourey-Jones 10:09
I think it was a combination of things, it was New New year, new resolutions fresh start, I think it's a good time of year to try something different or something that you might see as being a bit restrictive. So I think the timing was good. I saw I think it was some adverts on Facebook that mentioned the community feel to it, the fact that you get support, you get updates, you get recipes, and you're able to join communities of like minded people who are in a similar situation. So that made it feel a lot less isolating than just doing it myself. And that support from Veganuary was was amazing. It was instrumental to me, firstly, trying it in the first place, but then actually realising you know what, I might as well just keep doing this, because I quite like it. So yeah.
Jim Moore 10:58
Did you know any other vegans before you started Veganuary, in real life,
Jules Fourey-Jones 11:02
in real life. So my best friend has actually been vegan. For quite some time, I think she went vegan back when right at uni. And that was for health reasons for her. But then the more that more that she's been involved in vegan communities and, and other meeting other vegans, she started to really think of it from the animal perspective and the environment perspective as well. And then through her, I know a couple of other vegans. I knew them before doing Veganuary. But actually, since since doing Veganuary I've met loads more, but not actually directly through January, just because people are becoming vegan. A lot more than they used to, it seems.
Jim Moore 11:44
What was your perception? I mean, obviously, they were friends. So you obviously had a pretty good relationship with them. But what was your perception of veganism and vegans, prior to kind of making these shifts.
Jules Fourey-Jones 11:56
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Back when I was a full blown meat eater, I had a bit of a negative attitude towards vegetarians
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Back when I was a full blown meat eater, I had a bit of a negative attitude towards vegetarians and vegans. I just couldn't get my head around what it was that they actually ate. And, as I mentioned, I love the steak, I loved sushi, sashimi, those were kind of my favourite things. And I'd have those at least once a week, and cheese. And so for my best friend, I think, particularly in the beginning, when she started the vegan diet, she, you know, struggled a bit, sort of knowing what to eat. And obviously, as time has gone on, and we've become more into cooking, and, and that sort of things, it's it's just become a lot easier. But my perception was, why would you do that to yourself. And, and also, I think just this attitude of, if you're doing it for the animals or the environment, then you know, you're just one person, you're not going to really make a difference. So why bother? Why deprive yourself of something that you enjoy?
Jim Moore 12:54
And things have obviously shifted in that particular regard. So talk to me a little bit about that. That's quite a shift. And it's quite a common one that I've heard insofar as people feeling like pretty powerless, and then feeling quite empowered when they when they make this shift. Was there a particular thing that that for you made you feel like actually, it does make a difference? That as an individual, I've made this choice?
Jules Fourey-Jones 13:20
Yeah, I think, numerous things, I think, firstly, the fact that the movement itself is growing so much, and so successfully, seeing more and more people taking up Veganiary and actually becoming vegan, seeing more and more restaurants offering vegan options. Also, just just walking down down the high street and you know, every other every other restaurants got some something vegan advertised in the window, just seeing the movement grow, and grow really successfully and fast more and more people joining Veganuary every year, more restaurants getting involved providing vegan options, and advertising, you know, quite openly that they've got vegan options, new vegan recipes, vegan dishes. And just seeing the V word and in general made me realise that it isn't, isn't such a tiny movement that, you know, just a handful of hippies are trying to change the world that it was actually. And it's not just when it comes to those vegan options in restaurants and stuff. It's not just vegans, who, who benefit from those, the more people that are making those options and just incorporating those into their day more, they are making a difference. Maybe not the biggest difference that they could make, but they are making a difference. So I think seeing that I was part of a movement really helped me to change my mind on that, you know, you're just a drop in the ocean, a point of view that I had originally. But I think also just kind of being a bit stubborn. With the adversity that I was getting around, you're not going to make a difference. Just kind of being like, well, you know what, it's a personal choice. It's a choice that I have. And I owe it to myself and to the animals and the environment to just make that choice stick to it really
Jim Moore 15:03
Absolutely a fairly common experience that folks have. And you just sort of, as you were talking there reminded me of that experience is being quizzed by friends and family over various things and challenged sometimes about nutrition, sometimes about the environment, sometimes about animal welfare, but you suddenly are, there's kind of an expectation that if
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you've made this shift, you have to be an expert in all things. And you should know absolutely every statistic and every piece of information related to all of that stuff. Was that your experience? And if so, how? Did you kind of cope with that?
Jules Fourey-Jones 15:44
It was my experience, I think I can safely say, I've probably heard it all. All that kind of catalogue of questions that I think we're used to as vegans from where do you get your protein from? Where'd you get your iron from? People hear that vegans donâ€TMt get their B vitamins and give them like mental deficiencies or like, you know, cerebral deficiencies, and it's amazing. How many people seem to think that vegans don't get any protein or iron or or B vitamins. Despite the fact that you know, protein and iron are pretty easy to get on a vegan diet, at least. Also, the whole caveman argument that's, you know, people seem to forget about evolution, when they, they suggest that we should eat the plate. And then the argument that if we didn't kill these animals, they will take over the world. That's that's probably my favourite in terms of most ridiculous. But how do I think in the beginning, to be honest, I didn't handle it very well, I think I was quite surprised by how confident people were in sort of initiating arguments show when, you know, decision doesn't impact them in any way. But they were pretty convinced that, you know, it was their prerogative to really sort of put me on the spot and try and catch me out with their questions. So in the beginning, I didn't handle it as well as I could have done. I think I was just a little bit taken aback and maybe on the defensive. To the point of, you know, sometimes maybe I'm going to get a bit angry with it's like, fourth person that day that's asking me ask me these kind of questions. Yeah, when I really just want to be left alone and eat my, my food in peace. But I got better at it. I think I've realised firstly, that, you know, the best way to get people around to your point of view is to just kind of empathise and be positive and be, be generous with your time and responses. But then I did also have to do quite a bit of work on educating myself on all of these topics. And earthling Ed, in particular has been an amazing resource. For me, I mean, he's even put together like full, full blown guides on how to respond to questions around veganism the common questions, and what the best way is to respond to those questions in a kind of almost like a coaching kind of way of getting people to think about their own perceptions and behaviours. But then, of course, doing the nutrition course, as well has really helped me because now I do kind of have a bit of body of reference about information from reputable sources, that, you know, if you direct someone to some research from a major food standard authority for or food authority, for example, that they can't really dispute, then that's helpful to have in the back pocket as well.
Jim Moore 18:41
And how about overcoming some of those kind of cultural changes and those cultural differences? You mentioned with with a lot of your family, coming from a French background? And, you know, I think that it's kind of widely sort of known what the sort of French cuisine is quite meat dairy heavy. And veganism is perhaps not quite as as hasn't quite as flourished as well, apart from in the sort of major cities in France, or at least that's the, that's the narratives. Some some folks in over in France might might correct me, but how did you kind of cope with with that kind of element where perhaps it's not necessarily about reasoned argument, but about actually a century a cultural viewpoint that is different to yours?
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Jules Fourey-Jones 19:30
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Jules Fourey-Jones 19:30
Yeah, that has been challenging. And I think particularly because a lot of my kind of older family in France, they're quite traditional and very much have grown up their entire lives with exactly the kind of cuisine that you mentioned. They're very dairy heavy, everything's cooked in butter. You have meat or fish at every meal. And even just having one vegetarian dish a day would be seen as quite radical. You know, you have to be on some kind of diet or something. But how I've overcome it. I mean, to be honest, I don't think I really have yet I think particularly my older relatives in France, I think every time I speak to them, whether it's over, over the phone or in person, the vegan thing will always come up. And they've they've just not right kind of got they've not got over it, even though it's been five years. My parents, my mum's French. And yeah, I mean, she she kind of alternates between accepting it and actually quite enjoying the challenge of cooking vegan food when I visit to Yeah, every now and again, having a bit of a kind of Yeah, struggling again, or going back to sort of asking me why And aren't you missing this to execute missing out, etc? So, so yeah, I think I'm not sure if I have actually overcome those cultural differences just yet.
Jim Moore 20:59
Have you seen any shift in either their perception, their perspective, or any, any other of your your kind of friends family who have put up some resistance in the last kind of five, six years? Because it's kind of interesting to me that, you know, you mentioned it early on about the sort of the, the rise of veganism and it made me think of kind of tipping points, you know, this idea that once we get to a certain tipping point, in terms of the perception of it in terms of the number, the number of us, then other people who are perhaps out on the fence might think hard, you know, what, there is probably some sense in this, have you seen in your, you know, your experience from those friends and family, any shift in that kind of 2015? Through to now 2022?
Jules Fourey-Jones 21:43
Yeah, I think back in 2015, the Volvo is quite a different place. I think the sort of vegan and vegetarian, particularly vegan movement was not really mainstream, it was quite fringe. And I think that meant that, you know, those people who were objecting to it or struggling to understand it, they tended to sort of find it a lot easier to confront me about it. Whereas now, I think the sheer volume, like you said, the turning point, the fact that you hear about veganism, you know, my grandparents that even even in the sort of quite more traditional magazines and things that they get, there will be an article every now and again about vegetarianism or veganism, which they never used to be, which I think, helps them to realise that I am not the only one and it is a really quite big and growing movement. And that if this many people are doing it, and you know, they haven't shrivelled up and died, or, you know, gone off to join a commune or whatever, which is, I think, what they were either of those things to happen to me that they are just becoming more accepting. And I think that will only increase I certainly don't see tolerance towards veganism, decreasing particularly as the number of vegans and increases
Jim Moore 23:01
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its interest interesting to me, you're going on the nutrition course, as you say, with Chef de
its interest interesting to me, you're going on the nutrition course, as you say, with Chef de
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Radley and the vegan chesco, which, obviously they do phenomenal work. And still relatively part was pioneering or not even relatively is pioneering there aren't there aren't many others, doing similar things out there in that kind of vegan space. And obviously, you went on the nutrition course, which I'm particularly kind of interested in, from the point of view of your motivation for doing that, did you have concerns almost, or want to at least solidify your your understanding of the nutritional aspect of it, you know, to feel extra kind of confident in your your lifestyle shift.
Jules Fourey-Jones 23:43
I didn't have concerns as such, I think it really was a case of having that, that bank of knowledge that I could refer to if I do get resistance, or especially around the nutritional side of things, but also, I've been thinking about my sort of longer term career path, what I might end up doing, you know, a few years time, maybe sort of, maybe potentially part time or whatever, initially, but I'm really, really curious about the concept of advising people, people who are looking to make the transition into being vegan who might not have the knowledge or resources or kind of creativity in the kitchen that that with a bit of support could make the whole process a lot easier and more enjoyable for them. So, so having done so I completed the vegan chef diploma, so that was really around meal creation and recipe creation, and then to tagging on the nutrition course as well, that would enable me to kind of put together meal plans, recipe plans that meet people's nutritional requirements and specific individual requirements as well. Because obviously, everyone's different. Yeah. So that's kind of somewhere I'd like to explore in the future in terms of maybe a bit of twist to my to my career path.
Jim Moore 24:58
Was there was there anything you got out of those Is that actually was was really new news to you in terms of I mean, obviously, I imagine it all was to some extent, but was really new news to you in terms of I actually need to tweak this in my own kind of diet.
Jules Fourey-Jones 25:13
Yeah, so a couple of things that I found really interesting that I had no idea about. So a couple of things that are actually suggested by Michael Greger and his book, How Not to Die, and tips like how to prepare your cruciferous vegetables in a way that really maximises the nutrition that you get. So I obviously knew not to boil the life out of my vegetables, but a couple of tips on just, you know, chopping your cruciferous vegetables an hour before you cook them. And the fact that that prevents loss of nutrition. Also, just exploring other types of sort of health cuisine really like raw vegan, I think learning just how much nutritional value gets depleted from, from vegetables when you do hate them in any way. I've just started adding a lot more raw vegetables and fruits into my diet, which I didn't have before even just like throwing a quarter into a dressing, just blending it. And using as a salad dressing, then I've got a roll quartet in my diet for the day. That things like that. But I think really small, easy changes that just maximise the amount of nutrition that you get, I think before, I was just kind of trying to get my five a day and make sure that I didn't forget to take my B vitamin supplements.
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Whereas now I'm kind of trying to push to two hours more than like 1012 a day. And maximising everything that mapping that can combining foods that maximise each other's nutritional value as well.
Jim Moore 26:44
It sounds like go and go right back. You know, as you mentioned, you really enjoyed at the time, steak, sushi, sashimi, these kinds of these kinds of dishes. How have you found your palate changed? And was that quite difficult to to overcome at first? Did you did you have a bit of a tussle between your taste buds and your ethics? Or was it was it all you know, pretty, pretty smooth in terms of the transition?
Jules Fourey-Jones 27:09
I was actually quite surprised how easy it was I thought because I did. I've always been a massive foodie and I love flavours and I thought I'm gonna really miss out on certain things that I I used to enjoy, but I think just kind of compartmentalising those memories in my mind and just being like, right, okay, I really, I had a really good steak one time I enjoyed it. But that's a memory now, I don't need to do it again. I can actually I can actually explore and enjoy completely new things. I think you know, well, I think 20,000 different types of edible vegetables and plant based foods out there. So you know, I'm making completely different dishes every day, which is really exciting. And then doing the professional chef course as well was was an eye opener in terms of understanding flavours, so that flavours and tastes and things like umami. And we recreated some some quite interesting dishes, we actually recreated sushi as part of the course using like tomatoes and smoking machine and really trying to mimic the textures of sushi and using seaweed as a flavouring if you want to get that fishy flavour. So I actually find it really more fun and interesting trying to replicate those things that I used to enjoy, and then enjoying the alternative, then kind of you know, feeling like I'm missing out.
Jim Moore 28:32
Yeah, if you had your time again, you went back to the start of your vegan journey. Is there anything you you do differently looking back now with the knowledge you've got? And I guess that also forms a good bit of advice for for folks who are kind of listening to this, perhaps because there's Veganuary in the title and they're thinking about their their first steps into this world.
Jules Fourey-Jones 28:54
Yeah, I think I I would probably educate myself a bit about what to expect in terms of the the resistance that I would get from friends and family or just meeting new people, colleagues, etc. When they find out that you're vegan or you're doing began your ages, maybe having a read through earthling Ed's resources and just kind of being psyched and prepared for it, but also just to remember to be diplomatic and patient, and, and respond in a graceful way, even if it's starting to get a little bit a bit draining and make time for make time for yourself as well if you don't, if you've had enough of people sort of asking you questions and just make sure say just
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make sure you step away from the situation and just have a bit of chill out and but just keep reminding yourself why you're doing it as well. And I think that's why the January is so helpful because you're getting literally kind of spoon fed information and resources and recipes that you can't really go wrong with and also the fact that there are so many The great new options out there as well, if you're out and about and wanted to eat something vegan, you don't have to cook everything at home. There's so much out there now.
Jim Moore 30:13
Yeah, I mean, you're absolutely right, that that point you made there about, you know, preparing yourself for the conversations you're going to have. I mean, I relate to your, your journey, I definitely found that that was one of the toughest things to, to cope with is not being someone who was particularly confrontational before. And so you know, and generally speaking, people don't tend to confront each other on their kind of ethical position on things in day to day kind of society, at least, at least perhaps not in British culture, too often, it's not a not kind of the done thing, if you'd like to sort of call somebody out on why they're doing something, or why they, you know, choose to go to church, or whatever they choose to do is that doesn't tend to be something that's called out. So I definitely relate to that sense that that felt, actually one of the most difficult things, they're almost the sorting out my own nutrition and all the rest of it was kind of that's fine. But suddenly being questioned in a way that I've not been used to, especially, you know, your lunch table at work or whatever, was, was very, very unique. So yeah, totally, totally relate to that kind of experience. Thinking about the January this year, you know, for for folks who are kind of in that in that space as well. And you, you obviously have had a background in loving cooking. For one. And one of the things that kind of concerns me that I often talk to people about, because I'm just kind of intrigued as to people's perspective, because particularly people who cook is your view on the amount of kind of convenience based products that are that are vegan right now. And particularly when we look at the January, often the sort of supermarket shelves have got segments dedicated to V January that have, you know, a number of prepared products, and this, that and the other on and I I sort of, on one hand I battle with I think it's great, and it's progress, and you know, all these kind of these kind of things that you could say that it is. And on the other hand, I think they're often very expensive, compared to their omnivorous alternatives, you know, because those are being subsidised and all kinds of other reasons. But on the on face value they are, they are more expensive. And sometimes not even particularly great for you, at least if you were going to eat them all the time, you know, they'd have quite nice products, but you wouldn't eat them. You wouldn't eat the processed omnivorous version all the time. So, you know, what, why would we the vegan version, and I sort of worry for folks who are kind of coming into it, that they they
see that that is veganism, so and so that's what they have to do? What's your kind of advice to those folks who perhaps aren't in love with with cooking initially, and have just come to it and you know, in their in their supermarket?
Jules Fourey-Jones 33:14
Yeah, that's an interesting one, because I think you know, that this ethical, vegan side of me thinks that the more people are eating vegan food, the better because the fewer animals are being slaughtered. And the better is the environment etc. However, like you say, if those items are heavily, like ultra processed, contain often contain a lot, I mean, if the, if the ingredients list is, you know, a paragraph long, then you know that it's probably not something that you would
have made at home. And probably not particularly good for you either. I think there's a healthy balance to everything. I think if you sort of look at what you did eat when you were an omnivore, if you're if you're planning to, to make the switch to vegan, have a look at you know, trying to create alternatives to and whole whole plant food based alternatives to as much as possible as you can. And I mean, maybe it will be an opportunity to actually start spending more time in the kitchen, if that's not something that you've really done before it might actually be an opportunity to take up a new and a new and interesting passion. And I find the foods that I enjoy the most are the foods that that I've cooked and I've cooked with love and passion and having spent a bit of time researching in advance, etc. But I appreciate that's not for everyone. I think there are also a number of kind of half meeting halfway opportunities there. So things like you know, mindful chef and all plants whereby you, you kind of don't have to do the full effort of of cooking something entirely from scratch and doing the shopping and then creating the shopping lists and buying individual items, but you still get the end result opium meal, which is a lot healthier than something, you know, probably a processed ready meal, for example. So that there are just so many options out there, I think, you know, take the opportunity to try and get into cooking. But also just think about the balance that you've got there in terms of what you would have, how much processed food you would have eaten, before going vegan, and whether that's a similar amount, or whether you're kind of maybe veering a bit bit too much towards the, the ultra process stuff. And I suppose on the price as well, like you say, it is a shame that things are slightly more expensive. But I do wonder sometimes whether it is a sort of capitalization on the movement, and the kind of perceived demographic, or like you say, there will, there'll be other things at play like substitute subsidies for, for animal produce. But I think it's as with everything in life, it's a, it's a balance, and just being kind of thoughtful and mindful of, you know, what you're putting in your basket, whenever you're doing that, that weekly shot.
Jim Moore 35:59
I love that point about thinking about how much of your diet before was processed. I think that's such a good piece of advice is a solid piece of advice is I think I probably made the initially, I really miss out initially, actually, I'll just say initially, I was pretty, pretty good at cooking things. And then probably I started to discover process and then went a little bit down that path for a while. And started to think this is actually pretty expensive. I'm spending quite I mean, I was I was fully committed to doing it, but it was kind of like, you know, overall, my weekly shop is more expensive and things like that. And I think that would have been a really good thing for somebody to have said to me at the time was think about how much processed you ate before versus how much you eat now and and then, you know, go back and adjust that, that balance, I think that's a really important one to, to call out. I mean, I worry about these things from the point of view that they they will ultimately lose people, you know, they will get to the end of January, and then they'll think out, you know what, I thought that I was going to get all these amazing health benefits, but I ate a tonne of sugar and fat. And you know, both of which compete perfectly vegan, and, and I'm also a lot poorer than I was to begin with. So I'll give that up. So I and I think again, you raise the point about businesses capitalising on it and again, I'll flip or flip flop between you know, it supply and demand is good, so on and so forth. And, and that argument again, that people will will be turned off it and so I kind of think it's incumbent upon us within the vegan community I know Veganuary as an organisation do a great job in this space the Vegan Society do as well. Talking to people about about cooking, you know, the vegan chef school, etc. Talking to people about what a healthy a healthy vegan diet could look like. Just to help people along that kind of journey, it might be less profitable for the supermarkets and the big companies, but it's far more sustainable, you get the benefits of the
J
health, you'll get the price, you know, 10 of chickpeas versus a steak much cheaper, all those kinds of things that we know about when we're a little bit further mindset. I love that piece of advice, I think is a really sound one. On that sort of note of advice we've obviously talked about you know, folks, folks, if you like who are omnivorous sort of coming at you with their kind of their challenges over the lifestyle. But one of the other kind of impacts of turning vegan, I don't know if you felt this is that you want to you want to shout it from the rooftops, you feel like the scales have been pulled from your eyes. And you suddenly like see the world for what it is you there's often often the kind of matrix red pill, blue pill kind of analogy is used within this sort of the quote unquote, vegan community. And I went through a bit of a period of, I need to kind of like aggressively push this message and kind of almost give people as sort of a shake, if you like, not physical one, hasten to add but a bit of shake into reality and show them and so on and so forth. Was that an experience that resonated with you at all? And if it did, or even if it didn't? What would your kind of advice be to people who are kind of feeling some of those thoughts about wanting to share the message, but not necessarily feeling comfortable? And how to do it?
Jules Fourey-Jones 39:27
Yeah, so I suppose, like you say, one of the things that sort of naturally happens when you become vegan, as you realise just how, how reasonable it is a change to make and that it doesn't deprive you of anything, but the difference that you are making as an individual is huge. It's one of the biggest things you can do in terms of your individual impact on the environment. And then of course, you know, if you're vegan for the animals, then it speaks for itself. Really? Yeah, I think talking about it, in terms of the animals and the environment. I found People are a bit less receptive to then talking about health. And I think people who are game changers, for example, I mean, a lot of people who, previously to having watched Game game changes, they were kind of anti vegan didn't see the value in it didn't really seem to care about the animals or the environment very much. But having watched that, and putting it in the context of themselves, just completely switched switch, they might change their minds, they ended up incorporating a lot more plant based food into their diets, etc. So I think, I think if you're gonna shout it from the rooftops, I think maybe just kind of know your audience and know what's going to appeal to them the most, because you can, you can flog a dead horse with talking about cruelty. And when people have got that cognitive dissonance, that they just don't, they just don't want to accept it, they don't want to hear it, and they will kind of fight your argument to the end. But if you make it about them, and the benefits to themselves, that I suppose to us, if your people become vegan, the better it doesn't matter, their personal reasons for it. So I suppose my advice would be, know your audience know what it is that will appeal to them about the vegan diet. And if that is that, you know, it will be much, much better for their health and fitness, then that might be an angle to kind of approach it with
Jim Moore 41:20
super sound advice that, you know, just sound advice generally, like, you know, know your audience and understand who you're talking to, and what buttons it, it will push for them personally. You know, I think we all once were in the in the sort of, quote unquote, community, we we see all these different angles, and then think, well, any one of them is a good enough reason, because we're kind of deep into the, the, the understanding of it, if you like any one of them, whether it's environmentally, environmental health, or certainly animals is, like you say,
J
it's, it's apparent why you would, why you'd need to make this chair. So it can be a bit it feels a bit odd almost having to think about why wouldn't somebody care about, you know, the life of another sentient being? Why wouldn't somebody care about, you know, planetary disaster and climate breakdown? You know, it's feel so obvious. And you can get these moments of frustration when when the, you know, there's something in this kind of Zeitgeist, it's popular, like, you know, don't look up is a good example. Where's the, you know, everyone's talking about climate change in you know, what can we do in this kind of stuff. And you, you, as you say, the single biggest thing we can do is to adopt a plant based diet and essentially go vegan, and, and yet the to, somebody can watch that, that film and be told that information and still put up a barrier in between them and say, Well, yeah, but I'm not going to personally do that. You know, somebody needs to do something, but I don't need to do that. It's, it can be frustrating. So I think it's a really, you know, valuable sort of piece of advice to think about it from, you know, from their perspective, and you think about yourself before you went vegan, and, you know, would everything have resonated with you, you know, when you were loving steaks and sushi and so on? Would it have all resonated with you at the time? Maybe not. So yes, got a treating people with the same kind of empathy we would have expected have been treated with ourselves, I guess. Yeah, exactly. Super staff. Well, at times Don's getting on jaws, and it's been it's been a fabulous chat. And I think we've we've hopefully inspired some folks to take on V January, if they're thinking about it. And I guess if they're listening, they probably are already along the the journey. So they've got some good, good, solid advice. It sounds like your Instagram is a good place to start for a bit of inspiration. So I want to make sure that folks know where abouts they can go in code and take a look at some some of your amazing dishes. So where can folks find you?
Jules Fourey-Jones 43:59
Yeah, great. So it's basically a pictures of everything I've cooked or eaten over the last couple of years. So hopefully some inspiration on there. So my instagram handle is a bit of a nod to Superbad plants in and around my mouth.
Jim Moore 44:15
Many thanks, thank you so much, its been an absolute pleasure chatting with you. I'll speak to you again. thank you so much.
This is a bloody vegans production