T.J. Galiardi

Jim Moore 0:14

Hello, my name is Jim, this is my podcast the bloody vegans. You're very welcome to it. Each week I'll be travelling ever deeper into the world of veganism, discovering along the way a multitude of viewpoints from the political and ethical to the practical. I'll be doing this through a series of conversations, each aiming to further illuminate my understanding and hopefully yours. Of all things a plant centric and this week is no different this week is Episode 88. I'm going to be chatting with TJ Galiardi. TJ Galiardi is a former NHL forward he's played with some incredible work teams Colorado Avalanche, San Jose Sharks the Calgary Flames on Winnipeg Jets the name but a few keen eyed watches of the podcast will know that I do have a significant softball for the San Jose Sharks. So it was a house was a bit of a superfan of teacher he's before speaking to him about a particular subject that we go into here. But what we what we talked about in this podcast, predominantly obviously, we do we do touch upon the NHL career, but we talk about what he's, he's taken on since so he during the course of his NHL career met up with a chap called Dr. Dan Burke and they together became the founders of outcasts foods and set about starting on a mission if you like to solve the food waste problem that we have aspect predominantly in in sort of Western capitalist society if you like there is a tremendous amount of food waste, which is a horribly criminal to to be to be honest not to put too bland a point on it. And between Dr. Darren Burke and and TJ Galiardi they've come up with an incredible way to put a significant dent in that problem and and basically repurpose that food upcycle if you like so I want to steal any of TJ thunder and obviously he is far more eloquent explaining it than than I so without further ado, here's a conversation between me and TJ Galiardi.

Good. So TJ it would be awesome to get started with a little bit of your personal journey into veganism was kind of brought you here.

T.J. Galiardi 2:43

Yeah, no, that's a good question. So my wife, who is my girlfriend then she was kind of one of the early Oh g vegans. Back when no one really even knew what the word vegan meant including myself. And you know, I remember we'd go to restaurants and she'd explained to the waiter waitress kind of what what she was looking to get and they looked at her like she was crazy and I was sitting there kind of just with my hands up in the air and so that kind of I think that was kind of my my entry into veganism, I started to learn about it from her. And her reasoning was 100% for animals. At the time I was I was a professional hockey player and started to just kind of slowly tinker with things, I would take certain products, animal products out of my diet and just see how I felt. And it was a it was a slow process for me, it wasn't like I watched, you know, cowspiracy and the next day I was I was vegan it was just a slow and steady kind of trajectory where I just started to take those things out and started to feel a difference and probably over the course of a year or two it happened and one day I had a chicken schnitzel in Prague that that wasn't very good. And that was kind of my final step I said I'm done with with animal meat completely and animal products and haven't looked back since then.

Jim Moore 4:09

You mentioned your girlfriend going for kind of ethical reasons girlfriend now wife. And you know, for you was was that kind of that seed being sown with you too? Were you starting to register that or was it purely kind of dietary initially?

T.J. Galiardi 4:23

Yeah, it was purely for performance for me initially. And I don't know, I think I was like everyone else. I didn't really want to make the connection. I actively didn't think about it. But then once I actually started to go down that path that you know, you can't turn back and you know, like every vegan says I only wish I did it sooner.

Jim Moore 4:43

Yeah. 100%. Understand, I'm fascinated by, you know, being an elite level athlete in the best Hockey League in the world. And, you know, top top performers who I would imagine and correct me if I'm wrong, have probably got a fairly traditional No and sense of nutrition you know this is tried and tested you know protein heavy diets and so on and so forth. What did what did your teammates and your coaches and so on make of you saying Joe Wong I'm going vegan

T.J. Galiardi 5:16

yeah you know I think it depended where I was playing when I when I was in the NHL I think guys on the team just kind of knew I was my own my own character I did things the way I like to do it and they accepted me for that and when you're playing at an elite level they're they're very they're very helpful with that kind of a thing so the team that the team coordinator that set up all the meals he always did a great job and making sure there were plenty of options for me and you'll never go hungry they call the NHL they call it the never hungry league right? So you have food everywhere you go but later in my career when I when I played overseas I played in Russia my last two years and they thought it was crazy they thought I was from another planet but even both leagues have changed a lot since then. I've been retired now for for for almost five years I think and what you're seeing now especially in the NHL is is it's come a long way from that meat and potatoes lifestyle i would say i on every single team in the in the NHL there's probably five to six guys that are completely plant based

Jim Moore 6:25

really wow and and this is this is a performance thing from that from their viewpoint.

T.J. Galiardi 6:30

Yeah I mean I don't know I don't know where there's answers on the environment in the animals but their their predominant decision making would always be around performance.

Jim Moore 6:39

Wow Wow. Was there ever any you know, was this seven years seven years ago this was so Was there any ever any pressure from from any coach any point to sort of you know, say TT you know what TJ this might not be the way to go here you know from a you know, from a performance point of view

T.J. Galiardi 6:59

I don't know about coaches like maybe when I was in Russia they they would say that they'd say you need you need me to be strong and on that the classic old school mindset but you know, I think it's come such a far it's come along so far that everyone can see the benefits of it. You know, you look at any any documentary any peer reviewed study now it really points towards being being vegan and plant based for the best performance

Jim Moore 7:27

Yeah, did you did you have to relearn much in terms of like you know what, what it was that you were going to eat to sustain yourself and and not only sustain but to thrive at that level?

T.J. Galiardi 7:38

Yeah, I think for me like I came into the NHL I was 19 years old so I didn't know anything I wasn't cooking my own meals I was just basically the furthest extent of cooking would be you know, making oatmeal in the morning or something very basic putting thrown a sandwich together but over time, I started to learn more about it and really get interested in food and how it affected me so by the time I made the full switch, I would say I was pretty dialled in I knew exactly what I needed I wasn't I wasn't too concerned about missing nutrients because I knew I was getting so much

Jim Moore 8:16

did you ever find yourself becoming a bit of a goto on the teams that you played for as the kind of you know if you if you're interested in kind of plant based nutrition you go and speak to TJ

T.J. Galiardi 8:26

yeah i mean it's it's really come full distance from them when I when I play it I think not many guys were that interested back in back when I was still playing but now it's I get a message I'd say once a week once every two weeks from someone that I either played with or sometimes guys that I don't even know and say hey, you know, I know you're vegan. I know you were one of the first guys if not the first guy in the NHL to ever be vegan. Can you give me some tips can you give me some introductory almost like lessons on how to do it

Jim Moore 8:58

yeah yeah that's that's pretty awesome good reputation to have maybe a another string to your bow yeah so nutritional coach for the for elite level athletes I like it because

T.J. Galiardi 9:10

I pretty much have a copy paste document that I signed up people now that I wrote up so I don't have to do it every time I love

Jim Moore 9:16

it. That's also a source of so what point did your your kind of interest peek into the world that you're in now in terms of like food waste and you started to see this problem was this a kind of a combination of you know, you come to veganism for the nutrition then you start to see the ethics and then you started to see the environmental was it was there kind of some other triggers for you?

T.J. Galiardi 9:37

Yeah, I think that's accurate, but for me, it was you know, once I was getting ready to retire from from playing hockey, I was looking at different avenues what to do next and my co founder on widow cast foods, Dr. denenberg him and I became friends actually my first year in the NHL, he had started a supplement company and grew it from a $50,000 line of credit to in the fit They're over $20 million in revenue. So very successful enterprise. And like I said him and I kept in touch throughout my playing days. And he actually became vegan shortly after I did. So we always would talk about kind of trends in the marketplace and different things that we were seeing and opportunities because after he sold that sold his business, we were kind of looking for something to do next together. And the whole environmental piece, I think it just goes hand in hand with with a vegan life, you just automatically are more attuned to it, you know, the impact your food makes. So we always would see things in newspapers and magazines about food waste, and it was always talking about the problem, everyone was just saying, hey, look at this full crop that went to waste of apples because they were bruised or too small or too big. And look at these bananas that showed up at a distribution centre for a grocer, and they were to yellow, so they ended up in the landfill. But no one ever talked about a solution. So the two of us thought we could be the two geniuses to come up with a solution. And really what we came up with was so simplistic that we were shocked that no one else did it. It was to partner with these, these waste companies, the product or the companies that are wasting these fruits and vegetables. So grocers, food processors, farms, and figure out a way to take the product from them. So it's not degrading further, it's not rotting. You get into it early enough before it hits a best if used by date, or if it hits a point when you can't use it for human consumption. And simply dehydrate it and give it a two to three year shelf life and then find a home for it. So really shocking how simple it was that no one was doing it, we looked in Canada, we're where we are, we looked in the US and Europe, everywhere, and no one was doing it. So huge opportunity, huge challenge. But here we are, little over three years past when we launched and you know, everyone's seeing how important sustainability and upcycling is,

Jim Moore 12:07

I guess when you came to some of these food producers and said, we've got this idea. I imagine they were kind of over the moon at the prospect of there being you know, another life for some of their products that ultimately we're gonna go to waste they were going to be, you know, lost for them.

T.J. Galiardi 12:22

Yeah, you know, it's almost three fold. So so the first way is obviously the amazing PR of saying, Hey, we're a zero waste company. The second is for them to be able to save money, because a lot of these companies, you think about a grocer, they're paying tipping fees to get rid of the product, you send it to a landfill. So that's that's a big money saver for them. And then the third is exactly what you said they know that the product is actually going to be used. I mean, you think about a farmer that all the work they put in to grow a crop for them to actually see it go to waste. It's heartbreaking.

Jim Moore 12:57

Yeah, yeah, I bet Yeah. Literally blood, sweat and tears going into these these, these projects and just thrown away.

T.J. Galiardi 13:04

Yeah, yeah. And it's it's not their fault, either, right? Like, they can't sell the product. And then a lot of times they give away as much as they possibly can. But if it's a massive crop, we're talking, you know, hundreds of 1000s millions of pounds of this product. I mean, a food shelter can only take so much,

Jim Moore 13:20

huh? Well, what were the kind of technical challenges because I, I'm following along with you in terms of, you know, that sounds like a fantastic idea. But if you then said to me, right, we're going to start a business and figure out how on earth you go about doing that, I'd be completely lost. So what was that learning curve? like for you? I'm just fascinated to go from hockey to I've got this amazing idea to, like, how do we do this?

T.J. Galiardi 13:43

Yeah, well, thankfully, my my co founder, Dr. Burke is a is a scientist. So he's got great connections within the university sector in Canada. And there's the National Research Council in Canada is a government entity where we partnered with them to come up with our own unique dehydration technology. So it did take probably a year and a half to come up with our own process, which is patent pending. And then on top of that, our own unique internal playbook of how to dehydrate multiple items. So you find a lot of dehydrators out there that will just do sweet potatoes, for example, or just doing potatoes. But for us, in order to make the largest impact, we wanted to do everything so Darren always says from we dehydrate everything from avocado to zucchini, and everything in between.

Jim Moore 14:32

Wow, wow. Forgive my complete ignorance and naivety here but I'm gonna ask I'm gonna ask anyway. So So these places where they dehydrated food existed before there was there's a market for Dr. Dre. What What is that market and forgive me because you're gonna say, an obvious product now, like us every day that I'm not aware of.

T.J. Galiardi 14:52

While it's something that people are typically surprised to hear is that a vast majority of dehydrated products come from China. So there's always a headaches when it comes to that you know there's there's plenty of issues it's well documented with with purchasing from China but you know dehydrated products going to everything from pet foods to cosmetics all the way to better for you snacks, you know you think about like trail mixes granolas cereals, and then the powders going to supplements they really the the application list is is very lengthy because dehydration has been around for aeons.

Jim Moore 15:31

Wow. Wow, it was exactly as I suspected it is all over the place. So music. Yeah. So, you know, from the scale of the problem point of view, because you mentioned you know, and I love this idea of because you're absolutely right. Every time I turn on the news, I I feel saddened by this waste problem. It's we're confronted with it, and rightly so. But no one's ever spoken about the solution. What's the scale of the problem?

T.J. Galiardi 16:00

It is so big globally, that, you know, even if outcast foods, if we had a if we had a facility, I would say if we had 200 scale facilities, we're still taking out just such a small scope of what the problem is. So we're talking I think the latest I saw was almost a billion tonnes of food gets wasted every year. Yeah, and, you know, obviously, a Canadian tonne is is 1000 pounds. So or 1000 kilos, sorry. So that the the amount is just you can't even wrap your head around it.

Jim Moore 16:36

Yeah, yeah. What's, what's the response been like, so far? You know, when you've pitched this kind of idea to folks, and you've told them about it? What are they? What have they been thinking? Like, what a great idea was no thought of this before?

T.J. Galiardi 16:49

Yeah, you know, I mean, with with having a startup, you pitch your idea a lot. So especially because we we've recently closed our series A we raised $10 million. And I think we pitch to probably, since we started the business, we've probably pitched over 250 times. So it's, it's a lot. And everyone always says the same thing. They say, Wow, it's an amazing idea. And then you get into the details, right? You're dealing with, with food waste, even though it's not waste, you still have a lot of regulatory issues, which we've thankfully we've, we've gotten through the mall, and it's capital intensive, right? So when you have heavy machinery, and you're dealing with with millions of pounds of food waste, it's expensive. So we're in the process of building out a 46,000 square foot scale facility just outside of Toronto, and this is a big step for us as a business and will continue to grow. I, you've probably seen how important sustainability is now and it's top of mind for for consumers. So we're in a good spot.

Jim Moore 17:55

Yeah. Are you sure are Yeah. There's many others who are even approaching the problem in in a similar effective way. So yeah, it's, it's pretty incredible. You mentioned the regulatory kind of elements. I'm fascinated by that. Because obviously, I'd imagine there is, you know, a legal requirement from a food safety point of view, and so on, and this food has kind of been deemed food waste. And often, you know, I sort of dabbled in a very kind of retail facing sense in in kind of, like, you know, food sales and so on in my, in my younger day. And I remember there being all kinds of legislation about once food was kind of like, you know, expired, what had to happen to it, you know, at saw retail source where you had to be processed and got rid of in a certain way, and so on so forth. How have you overcome those those kind of barriers?

T.J. Galiardi 18:46

Yeah, well, the the long and short of it is, is having an amazing quality assurance team. So there, there's a lot to deal with. But the end of the day, the food we're getting isn't technically waste, if you think about it. So if we're getting product from a farmer, it's, it's, I would say, 90% of the time, it's just misfit or ugly, right? So it's still very early in the stage. A lot of the times it was just harvested recently, or they weren't going to harvest it because they knew they couldn't sell it. So we partner with them, they harvested it goes right to us. So there's not an issue there. Second is like food processors, same thing. They're dealing with product that they're going to process at its peak time. So they're not waiting, they're not going to process it too early or too late in this stage. We're just taking the byproduct and then with the grocers, I think a lot of people think that we're taking the product that is coming off the shelves at the stores, that's that's you know, you know, it's an apple that's kind of mushy or getting to that rotten stage. We're working with them at their distribution centres, so it's a truckload of bananas showing up there to yellow it's, it's a truckload of raspberry clamshells that show up and the best if used by date is in five days instead of two weeks. So they want to say We're not going to pay to ship it out to all of our stores and have it on the shelves for one day and then have to get rid of it. So we take it, we process it before it's best if used by date. And then the last part of that is our process or dehydration process has a verified kill step as to which essentially mean that no, no harmful bacteria is left in it at all.

Jim Moore 20:24

pretty comprehensive. I know imagine, imagine it had to be but yeah, that again, enough, like technical challenge that, you know, I can only imagine the steps you had to go to?

T.J. Galiardi 20:35

Yeah, it was a lot of time and a lot of work.

Jim Moore 20:38

Yeah, absolutely. Thinking about the the nutritional aspects, obviously, that's the sort of the safety aspect, you know, which would probably like, you know, like, like you said, I think most people's image of food waste is the stuff they see at the end of the day in this in the supermarket? Not they don't see even the biggest scale of the problem, that truck of bananas, that turns up that kind of stuff. What about the kind of nutritional elements, obviously, the ugly food and so on is, you know, there's no problem there. But is there in the in the dehydration process? How? Or can you even preserve the nutritional quality of the food? Is that is that something that you can do? Yeah,

T.J. Galiardi 21:18

of course. So it all depends on how you dehydrate it. So that was a big, big piece for us, when we were you know, starting on this journey is, you don't want to save all this for all these fruits and vegetables in this food and habit have no nutritional value, it just it just makes no sense. So the traditional main to traditional drying techniques are spray drying and drum drying, which are essentially at an extremely high heat. So you're you're degrading the product to a point where it basically has almost no nutrition. So that was out of the question for us. And that was I would say 95% of all dehydration processes are that the rest is you know, freeze drying, which is uses up so much energy. And the product is you know, I don't know if you've tried freeze dried fruits or vegetables, it's kind of a weird crunch to it. So we didn't want that either. Our processes is that a low thermal temperature so you maintain a very high level of nutrients sometimes up to between five to 10 times higher than then spray drying and drum drying.

Jim Moore 22:22

Wow, that I mean that that's a huge, huge advantage. I imagine over over anyone trying to do the other processes and so on. Is there is there a kind of expense attached to that sort of higher quality processing? I would imagine there is otherwise the budget everybody would go the route of the the keeping the nutritional quality.

T.J. Galiardi 22:43

Yeah, it is more expensive because it's it's multi step. It's not you just you don't just throw it all into one machine and then all of a sudden it comes out dehydrated, right? So it's more expensive, but we sell a really unique product because when when brands work with us and buy our ingredients, they can market sustainability and food waste reduction right on the front of their packaging, which is the number two buying decision behind taste for consumers right now.

Jim Moore 23:10

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. The focus of the business obviously on fruits, vegetables, produce and so on, you know, as a, as somebody who has, you know, been vegan for seven years and so on, is is there a kind of a key thing, a key element of this business that's kind of underpinning it for you that is about trying to, I suppose advocate for people eating more nutritionally dense plant based foods.

T.J. Galiardi 23:36

Yeah, it is definitely I mean, the fact that Darren and I are both vegan it's it's really ingrained into our kind of ethos as a brand is 100% vegan. We've had some funny opportunities with you know seafood companies coming to us and saying hey, we have a lot of byproduct could you guys dehydrate that will buy it back off you and a lot of different meat companies but we would never go near that stuff it's it's just totally against the way we we deal with things ethically. And then also like you said, we're adding healthy nutritious food back into the into the food system and food cycle so people are going to be able to eat healthier products and the other half of our business apart from the ingredient sales part is we have a supplement brand which is 100% vegan and makes it very convenient for people to get their nutrients you know, you put a scoop of it in our protein powder or greens powder, mix it with water and a smoothie and you're off and running with a very healthy nutritious meal.

Jim Moore 24:37

I guess that you know that particular element is supplementation was a world that you're you know, completely ofay with from from being an elite level athlete. Have you have you found any, I guess kind of scepticism resistance from folks who are used to their traditional kind of whey protein and so on. You saying to them in actually a plant based world protein sources is higher quality and so on. Do you get any pushback? Yeah, I

T.J. Galiardi 25:05

mean I think it depends on on what community you're looking to sell to, you know, if you're if you're selling to like the hardcore gym, people that you know, they're trying to really bulk up and, and be jacked, I think they really have that mindset in their head where whey is the best product. Although, again, it's been proven in peer reviewed studies that that plant based protein powder is better for you, obviously better for the planet and better for the animals, of course, than whey. So I think other brands have actually done the work for us with that ones that have been around for years and years and have been plant based. So they kind of did the groundwork for us on that. And now we're coming in as the first ever sustainable plant based protein, which is pretty exciting.

Jim Moore 25:49

Yeah, certainly is certainly is, and I think the, I say the kind of the tide is turning in this sort of, in the world of kind of athletes and people just interested in their kind of health and fitness. You know, I think things like game changes and so on is kind of like lodged in people's psyche. And so have you have you seen more of that specifically, since things like game changes and, and even see spirits? See, I know, it's obviously about the animal agriculture industry, and in particular, the the oceans, but still, this message of huge volumes of waste is kind of apparent in it. Have you seen any kind of reaction off the back of kind of those, this rise in sort of vegan documentaries, if you like?

T.J. Galiardi 26:33

Yeah, definitely. I see your, your Sea Shepherd sweater, too. That's awesome. But yeah, I think you can go to the data, too, right? It's a double digit increase in plant based every single year across all categories. So it's only going up. I know you and I talked offline for a second when we're kind of in this bubble of everything around us as vegan so sometimes you wonder if it's if it's still that way on the outside, but I mean, you can go to any major supermarket and you see the the plant based sections just growing and growing every year. So what I've seen in my travels is is plant based is top of mind for everyone and the folks that are slowly adopting it, they're going to make it there on their own terms, and it's going to happen eventually. And for us as a business like we year over year, we had almost a 4,000% increase on our direct to consumer sales with our brand so the data is there and hopefully we can just keep moving forward as a vegan community.

Jim Moore 27:35

As you say, we talked a little bit about it offline and I wanted to sort of save the asking you this question until were we recorded? I am fascinated to find out a little bit about what sort of vegan life is like admittedly with the caveat of when our vegan bubbles in Canada is there particular areas of the country that are more vegan friendly cities that have kind of adopted things faster than others? You know, is there any pattern your generation levy what sort of trends have you seen?

T.J. Galiardi 28:07

Yeah, you know, obviously the the larger cities are going to be more fast moving when it comes to anything that's on trend, right? So well I live in Calgary but my wife is from Toronto, which is the biggest city in Canada and I mean, you can go You can't go probably two blocks without a vegan restaurant or a place that is serving vegan food and in Toronto, it's you would be hard pressed to find a place whether it's, you know, 100% vegan place or even a steakhouse that doesn't have vegan options now and in pretty much every major city and in Canada, which is which is amazing to see. And it's only it's only blossoming further right, like in Calgary. I think there's, since I've been here, we got back I don't know only a month ago and I've seen two new vegan restaurants open just in that time and I know of two more that are opening so these guys are they're doing well and if they weren't successful you wouldn't see more of them opening up

Jim Moore 29:10

and exciting times for you from from a business point of view as well as sort of an ethical and a kind of worldview point of view.

T.J. Galiardi 29:16

Yeah, definitely. No, I, I'm I could go to a new vegan restaurant every day and whenever I travel, that's the first thing I look up what's the what's the coolest vegan restaurant in town and I've gotten to try some really amazing food over the years

Jim Moore 29:31

in your travels with you sort of hockey career, I imagine there's a lot of not only obviously moving clubs every so often things like this, but the the away trips and all and all the rest of it, that kind of road trips, was there any particular standouts? In terms of what vegan hotspots where you thought you know what, I'd like to spend a bit more time here.

T.J. Galiardi 29:50

And that's a good question. I'm in New York City. There's so many vegan restaurants. I think there's like There's probably over 50 in New York I would say at least. So Vancouver and Canada as well has so many. Your you wish you were there a little longer like you're trying to one vegan place for breakfast, one for lunch, one for dinner. And then sometimes one of those is so amazing that you're like, I have to go back here, right? So I just I love travelling and try new places. So I'd say Vancouver and Canada is probably probably has the best. And then in the US like California and New York, obviously those are the those are the spots.

Jim Moore 30:33

Yeah, absolutely. I suppose New York's one of those. Is everything. Is there. A bit? A bit London like in that sense. Yeah, absolutely. And yet, so it's, again, it's going sort of back and forth between hockey and outcast. I'm fascinated by, you know, you've mentioned an awful lot of the technical stuff that you've had to imagine learn. And you've had sounds like an incredible partner, and to support you through that, that journey. But coming from the world of professional hockey, elite level sport from 19 years old, you said through to, you know, retiring from that and taking on such a huge challenge. Has there been kind of like a lot of transferable skills? Or is it been like literally like, starting from scratch?

T.J. Galiardi 31:26

Yeah, that's it? That's a good question. And you know, the way I thought about it just the other day, as if you have ever seen the movie, Slumdog Millionaire, yeah, it's basically like, his life was a combination of experiences that made him who he was, at the certain time to be able to get through certain challenges. And obviously, in the movie, it was get through questions on Who Wants to Be a Millionaire, whatever it was, but for me, I think I've learned so many things throughout my life, not only with with sport, but also just with, with my experience of travelling everywhere and moving around so much that I think that stuff has definitely helped me with my transition into business. And like you alluded to, I mean, my, my partner on this is, he's very experienced, and he's been tremendously patient and, and helpful with me throughout the process. So I've been blessed my whole life and things are continuing in the business world.

Jim Moore 32:25

Yeah, like that, that absolutely resonates with completely get where you're coming from this idea that actually all of your experiences culminate into where you're at now. And it kind of everything's transferable in its own way. Absolutely. Just thinking about like, the other players you've seen who've retired and so on did did you have some folks who were kind of guiding you to start thinking about your life beyond beyond hockey? Or was this something very much that you kind of always had your, your head screwed on and feel like that? This this life doesn't last forever, I need to think about beyond beyond the game.

T.J. Galiardi 32:59

Yeah, I think early in your career, you think you're gonna play for 20 years, and, you know, make $100 million, or whatever guys are making these days. But kinda as I went along, I started to realise that I had ambitions to be more than a hockey player. I mean, definitely now, like, I don't want to be looked at as just like a guy that played in the NHL, I want to I want to make a difference on the globe. And, you know, without cast foods, and then whatever comes next, I want to make a real impact towards the environment, and especially animals. I'm so passionate about that now. So I think to answer your question, I started to think about it later in my career and was able to network with the right people during my playing career. And, again, just really lucky that things worked out with, with my co founder now. Is there kind of

Jim Moore 33:51

support for for players to think about that? Or is it kind of very much like on their own terms, you know, they have to figure this stuff out themselves? Or is there kind of a almost like, I'm thinking of like, you know, people transitioning out of the military, and I need some help just figuring out like, what do I do next, because it is current, there's some parallels with that insofar as it's, you know, such a unique position, as opposed to you know, you most people will take on one job, and then they take on another one, and it's kind of similar jobs for the rest of their, their kind of working lives. Whereas elite level sport and I've spoken to a couple of folks in this world, it's kind of very much one world and then very much another. And many have talked about this idea that actually, there wasn't necessarily a huge amount of support from the game itself to help folks think about beyond because, like you say, not, not everybody's kind of going to be at the point where they probably never need to work again or even you know, they, they don't want to imagine most people want to do something else, you know,

T.J. Galiardi 34:51

yeah, yeah, definitely. I think the League and the Players Association are are trying to help out a little more now. Like when I first came into the league, I don't know There were any resources for it really and you've seen some players over the years struggle with that transition it's it's not easy so they're they're trying I think they need to do a little more for sure. And it is a unique situation for everyone because you're you're in a locker room with 25 guys and you know maybe maybe eight of them will never have to work again in their lives eight to 10 and then some some of them will still want to do something right like there's there's so many different avenues that you can go down but everyone needs support and need some help on the transition.

Jim Moore 35:36

Yeah, absolutely. Well, I think you're providing a positive example for many items in this some of your ex teammates who are thinking you know what, that sounds that sounds like a great plan even if it's not directly dehydrating foods but I perhaps I should go into entrepreneurship

T.J. Galiardi 35:52

Yeah, I try to tell guys to that you know, you're you're smarter than you think you are and you can learn quicker because you know, I didn't know what 95% of the terms that I talked about every day are now when I retired and you can pick things up pretty quickly and you find the right people to partner with or the right mentors and you can move forward pretty successfully but I think it's easy to fall back into that that lifestyle of hockey you just become a coach or scout or a manager or somehow in the front office it's a very simple thing to do and a safe thing but to step into a completely different world like entrepreneurship or whatever it is in the corporate world it's it's you got to stick your neck out a little

Jim Moore 36:38

Have you found you've had to sort of almost find you know this this is you finding a new buzz if you like because I can imagine there's a lot of adrenaline that goes with that elite level sport that's that's you just can't replicate anywhere else you know the crowds and so on and so forth. And like you say I can imagine and I'm not obviously speaking from any kind of level of experience being at best a beer league sort of player in the in the UK but you know I can imagine folks who've gone into that coaching world kind of that he is never quite scratched again whereas kind of being the the co founder of something as exciting as this yes it's diff it's not the same but I imagine it's got its own buzz to it you know you're learning things like you say they're just incredibly new and exciting. Have you kind of felt that have you felt that kind of replacement if you like that that buzz

T.J. Galiardi 37:31

yeah yeah like you're never gonna play I played a game in front of 77,000 people wants an outdoor game in the world championship so that's you're not going to have that again in the business world like no one is watching you you know sign a partnership with a farm it's never gonna happen right so i think you got to find a way to move on and stop living in the past so for me like I try to live in the present as much as possible and just enjoy the ride and enjoy learning there's so much to learn and I know for now on I'll be in business for the rest of my life because it's it's just a completely different feel and I guess a different rush if you want to put it that way.

Jim Moore 38:12

Yeah, yeah, I could imagine imagine how's your house COVID affected affected the business because you know, we're you founded it in what 2017 it was around late 2017 late 2017 so sort of four years in so still relatively relatively early on in the business is kind of history how has this this kind of massive like paws on the world affected you? Yeah,

T.J. Galiardi 38:40

well, it's almost there's almost a dichotomy with it. So obviously we have a supplement brand that sells in retail and our biggest retailer went bankrupt and COVID so we our business actually lost a tonne of revenue from what we were projecting because of that so that was a struggle we were in the middle of financing we were about to start our series A right before COVID hit. So that took a long pause we almost we almost stopped for I think eight months where we were like we're not going to we're not going to be able to raise money in this even though we have a lot of momentum. So that was a struggle but then at the same time it really showed people how important sustainability is and how your your decisions your food buying decisions affect the globe and in a environmental system right so you really have to pay attention to what you're buying because it's it's gonna affect you whether it's pandemics in the future, whether it's you know, forest fires, so on so forth, right that it's it's definitely made our business stronger in the sense that people are looking at it more often now. So if I could go back obviously, I think everyone would would say we're going to not have COVID but We're finding the positives on it as much as we can.

Jim Moore 40:04

Yeah, yeah. Well, I'd imagine if if you if you want a test of a of a business's durability, there's probably no better one. So, so coming through this, like you have is probably testament to how sound the the idea and the and the business itself is.

T.J. Galiardi 40:21

Yeah, there were some dark days, though. It's, it's tough as a startup going through this when the whole world goes on pause. But yeah, we made it through and we're in a really good spot now.

Jim Moore 40:33

Do you think, you know, talking about pandemics and that, you know, obviously, the, the, the reason for the pandemic, if you like is, I think almost been a little bit washed away, you know, the kind of the connection with animal agriculture, if you like as, as kind of not been brought to the forefront? I imagine because that that connection is not one that any anybody would like to make either a governmental level who are obviously subsidising agriculture and so on, or from the big businesses who stand to make money from animal agriculture, etc. They don't want to make that kind of connection. And, you know, yes, this pandemic was attached to a kind of animal live market in a live animal market in China. But you know, we think about swine flu h one n one, there's so many links with, whether it be pig farming, chicken farming, etc, etc. Do you think that that message has been needs to be made louder within the vegan community if you like that these connections are made?

T.J. Galiardi 41:43

Yeah, I mean, I think any vegan is going to definitely say it does need to be louder and needs to be talked about more. But I find even with myself, right, like, I'll use an example. You know, the the documentary Earthlings. It's obviously a really tough watch. And I think you get in this position where you're like, Okay, I'm vegan, so I don't need to watch that. Because I'm not, I'm not actively participating in that kind of suffering and, and cruelty. And I'm guilty of that, too. I haven't watched Earthlings yet, because I'm like, it's gonna hurt me too much to watch. And I'm not someone that does that. So I don't need to see it. Right. So it's almost the same thing with these live animal markets, right? You're like, I would never go to one. Obviously, I don't condone them, but I don't I don't even want to talk about it. Because it's not something I take part in. So it's, I think that's probably what you're seeing in a way. But I think the people that need to look at it are the non vegans.

Jim Moore 42:47

Yeah, absolutely. I sort of, yeah, I worry, that message is just not being heard at all. And and and if it's not, we, like you say we were sort of, there's another pandemic round the corner if we continue to, to sort of treat animals in this mechanistic kind of mass. This kind of scale.

T.J. Galiardi 43:10

Yeah, no, I think you're right. And I mean, I there's still optimism now. Right? Like, you look at what what, you know, impossible is done. And beyond meat is done. Like, it's, it's crazy. Like, if you thought the growth that those companies would have had, you know, five years ago, you would have never guessed it. And then I'm optimistic about these, these cultured meat companies, too, right? Like, the people that will never give up animal meat, and they'll never switch to an analogue, they're gonna have an option to write like, and they'll make it cheaper eventually, and then we'll be off and running because I hate to say it, but I think some people will never give up meat until they die. Right? So it's nice that there's going to be these these options where there's no animals die.

Jim Moore 43:56

Absolutely. I mean, I think it's in the last week that I think Oatley has been sort of publicly publicly traded for the first time and beyond is is up there to you know, how does you know as a as a as an entrepreneur with a relatively new startup how does how does those kind of things factor into your kind of excitement level of if you like about where outcasts could go?

T.J. Galiardi 44:22

Yeah, it's inspiring. I mean, only you just brought up they had a $10 billion valuation like that's that's mind blowing the amount of money that is so I think for us, we just want to keep making the right moves. You're right. We're early stage that you just got to keep doing the right things and keep hitting milestones and then I think the same thing probably happened with oatly. Right? They just kept doing the right things and before they knew that they had the option to go public and make a true impact. That's that's the big thing that that we want to follow with those big brands. their footsteps.

Jim Moore 44:57

Absolutely. I'm not sure if we've 100% covered exactly where outcasts foods sort of end up I'd love to love to sort of explore that a bit because obviously you've got the supplement range, we talked a little bit about the supplement range. But but there's, there's way more to it than that. So it'd be it'd be good to sort of understand from your point of view, you know, what, where does outcaste foods kind of fit in?

T.J. Galiardi 45:20

Yeah, well, I think for us our goals are to expand across Canada. We're, like I said earlier, we're building out our first truly large scale facility outside of Toronto. I think after that, it's probably to spread West a little further from there, maybe get into British Columbia, which you know, has traditionally has a lot of food waste and a lot of farms and then work our way south into the US and start to impact there and then from there, you know, I would say you could roll you could spin a globe and drop your finger and there's a business case for outcasts foodstuff facility wherever you end up there's that much food waste so it's just to keep growing and keep making an impact on this food waste problem that that's truly so big that you can't even comprehend it.

Jim Moore 46:07

Yeah, absolutely. Where can folks go to find out a bit more TJ

T.J. Galiardi 46:11

outcasts foods calm that's the best place we try to publish a lot of content to keep people up to date with what we're doing and show them a bit of what we see every day that you know these truckloads of fruits and vegetables that are going to waste are for crops so it's it's an interesting place to go if you if you care about that stuff and if you care about sustainability and always say you got to try our products because we have 100% guarantee to if you don't like them, you can get your money back and of the 1000s and 1000s that we've sold I think we've had you know maybe a handful of people turn up Turn it back so it's it's a pretty amazing flavour.

Jim Moore 46:56

It's pretty compelling really is like, you know, from not only from the nutritional standpoint, but the ethical standpoint, food waste sustainability law, it just just ticks all at the you know, for me, personally ticks all the boxes, I think is a pretty incredible idea. And there's direct to customer on the website, too, right? So you can buy direct,

T.J. Galiardi 47:14

exactly. I don't know if we sell in the UK yet, but no, yeah. Eventually I looked. Yeah. Maybe, maybe some big retailer, call us after this. And we'll be able to, to get into the UK.

Jim Moore 47:27

Let's hope so. Let's hope so I'd love to I'd love to see outcasts foods over here. I think it'd be it'd be amazing. And like you say, I think there is like I'm thinking about the UK. The food waste problem is is off the scale. Absolutely. This kind of this kind of solution could be like you say dropped into anywhere on the on the on the map, certainly across Europe. You know, once you're done with Canada and the states, definitely hop over the pond. I think I'd love

T.J. Galiardi 47:56

to be out there love love being in the UK.

Jim Moore 48:00

Awesome. Well, TJ, it's been, it's been awesome chatting with you. And kudos to you for an incredible idea. The brave step of moving from one early career to another, more power to you. I think I think it's an incredible story. And I'm sure you'll be you'll be up there with the old ladies and beyonds with that idea if not, if not much further. So huge, huge well done and, and I look forward seeing the progress.

T.J. Galiardi 48:29

Thanks, Jim. I appreciate it. Thanks for spreading the word about veganism to

Jim Moore 48:36

awesome thanks, TJ

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